19 year old sick BP

jrread07 · 04-14-13, 02:40 PM

I have had Sebastian for 19 years now. Got him from a pet store at no longer than 8", dealt immediately with mites, and have had a long history of moves accross the US.
I have a 40gal breeder with a cave on one end (85 deg), large rock bowl on the other (80deg), and a heating pad from underneath in between the two as well as a blue light from above (90 deg).
I do not use any substrate other than brown industrial paper towel that I have used for most of the 19 years.
Tank is usually at correct temperatures, but humidity is usually low.
The last few winters (we are in Wisonsin) we have let him hybernate (turn temps down and a little more darkness). he usually goes 4-5 months without eating this way and has been the norm.

In normal months he usually eats a medium rat once a month.

Not sure on weight, but about 4.5ft.

The issue for the last couple days is that I thought he was dead as his upper 6" was flippled upside down and not moving. I immediately took him out to inspect. He is alive, but so extremely lethargic. I put him in the bathroom sink with for a warm bath. This seemed to help, though he went under, blew lots of bubles, and didn't come up for a while. Thought he was drowning himself. He stayed in the bath for 2 hours. I put him in the cage and seemed he was better. I got a small rat (usually eats large, but didn't think that was wise this time) and he showed interest, but appeared to get tired. The rat just sits and tries to snuggle with Sabby. He has retreated into his cave, half fliped and half out of the cave - usually coils up and disappears totally in the cave.

He does look like he is getting ready to shed due to some of the patches that are sticking up and looking like the second skin is loose, but there are also red and green patches that look sickly.

There are no other animals near him or that he comes in contact with and his cage is usually cleaned within hours of any defication. His tank is dry and comfortable.

Can a Ball get inclusion body disease (Inclusion Body Disorder) just from age? Is 19 too old in captivity? I was thinking more along the lines of 30.

Any help would be appreciated.

RyanReptile · 04-14-13, 03:25 PM

That definitely doesn't sound good a vet visit is probably in order.

StudentoReptile · 04-14-13, 03:42 PM

Do you have other snakes in your collection? IBD is usually transmitted from another snakes, often via snake mites. From what I know of the disease, it is a contagious virus. Age wouldn't cause it. If that is indeed what he has, then he got it from another animal.

The green/red scale issues, IMHO, is something entirely unrelated to IBD, from what I understand. Possible fungal or bacterial infection, but I couldn't tell you exactly what.
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My assessment: get to a qualified reptile vet asap. It is very possible the snake has two unrelated issues going on (IBD or another neurological ailment) and the scale issue. However, I think it is unlikely. Something has happened in the snake's life that is causing this recently, especially for a 19-yr-old snake that has been reasonably healthy (I'm assuming?) up until just a few months ago.

smy_749 · 04-14-13, 03:45 PM

Is there a large somewhat open wound on his mouth in the bottom left pic?

StudentoReptile · 04-14-13, 03:49 PM

I sympathize, as I have a 20-yr-old+ BP myself, and besides a few long fasts, he has been rock solid since I got him in 1992.

Did the snake suffer a trauma recently, such as accidentally getting slamming by a cage lid/door or dropped? These things can cause the neurological symptoms you're seeing.
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Another thing to consider, if you have not already, is that if veterinary expenses are too costly and/or a good herp vet cannot be located, euthanasia may be the next best thing for your snake. If you can't locate a veterinarian who will do this, I can PM you for how to do this humanely on your own. I know its a difficult thing to think about, but just putting it out there. Hope you find a resolution to this matter.

Terranaut · 04-14-13, 03:55 PM

If you have other snakes you need to seperate them as far apart as pissible. I took a hella lashing for mentioning "that" in another thread but if itbis "that" your entire collection is at risk so take steps as if itnis and hope it isn't. Sorry

jrread07 · 04-14-13, 04:00 PM

Thank you for all the info/comments.
The only other pets in our family at the moment are two dogs that do not go near Sabby. He has never been ill/poor health until just a couple of days ago. I did not think IBD was the issue due to how it is contracted, but it does have relatable signs. There has been no dropping or accidents with him as he is just coming out of his winter slumber. Hy typically goes pretty quiet for about 4 months here in Wisconsin during the cool dark winter days.
Usually he pops his head up around April looking to the sky, I drop in a live medium rat and snap 20 minutes later rat is gone. Then, once a month he has another one until November.
I put him in a "warm" sink of water and that seems to perk him up a lot. He is soaking at the moment and is moving around a bit. I just did another thourogh cleaning of his cage with Windex, then rinse, and will let it sit to get warm again while he soaks. I think I found a Herp Vet 30 minutes away and will call them tomorrow to see if I can get in.
StudentoReptile - please PM me the self-euthanasia info in case it is needed.
The only thing, which I am sure is only a coincidence, is that I had a severe 1 week flu. He was in the room with me the whole time. Could I have given him some resperitory/viral disease? That sounds stupid, so I hope it is just that.

smy_749 · 04-14-13, 04:03 PM

I don't think it sounds stupid, never hurts to wonder/ask questions.

Terranaut · 04-14-13, 04:17 PM

Did you use any vapor medicine like a puffer or vics in a humidifier? Trrated for mites lately?

smy_749 · 04-14-13, 04:22 PM

Go give your paper towels a wiff, see if they smell funny or look off. Maybe something was spilled on the roll, at home or at the factory you purchase from.

bumblebat · 04-14-13, 04:42 PM

Is it possible that he was bitten by a rat? It looks bacterial to me.

jrread07 · 04-14-13, 06:58 PM

No rat bite otherwise it would have shown 4 months ago when he last ate.
Paper towels are good. They are brown, non-bleached, smell like paper.
One thing I do remember is my wife is doing this "herbal oil thing - smelly oils" in our Master Bathroom which is right next to where Sabby has been over the winter. She did start that while I was sick with the flu. It does seem to match up with the timing.
I have moved him to a Herbal Oil Free Zone. He took a 2 hour soaking bath tonight in the Master Bathroom sink (even closer to the oils), and he has some good movement now. I put him back in his tank with a new lamp as well as that had blown recently. He headed straight to his little cave with a lot of effort, but more movement than I have seen all day. Found a vet 30 minutes from here for snakes and will see when I can get in.

**Aaron_S** · 04-14-13, 07:18 PM

Take him to the vet. Be sure to get blood tests for toxicities. Also be sure the vet takes a culture of the area.

The green is throwing me off but the parts that I can still scales it looks fungal or bacterial.

When this passes we'll assist in the proper care of a ball python.

StudentoReptile · 04-14-13, 07:23 PM

I wouldn't get too zealous with the soaking baths. Maybe once a week.

Has he shed at all since all this has started? I'd be interested to see how it turns out after a molt.

Did you get my PM?

smy_749 · 04-14-13, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I wouldn't get too zealous with the soaking baths. Maybe once a week.

Has he shed at all since all this has started? I'd be interested to see how it turns out after a molt.

Did you get my PM?

I don't know if we are allowed to post links to other reptile forums, but another well known forum had someone with the same green scale issue, started off as very small green edges and ended up spreading. He was using some spray called vita spray which he said was "supposed to be good for the skin"