Video of Toothless, and feeder question

[Toothless]

Hi everyone,
I took a video of Toothless eating the other day, and just thought I'd stick it up here .
Also, I have decided to try breeding my own feeder mice/ gerbils. The guys getting so big and eats so much that it would be nice to have a steady supply of these little buggers. Someone is giving me 6 gerbils for free, and I was hoping to breed them, along with a few mice. Does anyone have any tips on the best and most humane way to go about it? Also, any advice on proper euthanasia techniques would be appreciated.
Hope this works...
VID-20130302-00006_zpsf4a8ce82.mp4 Video by gothicangel_69 | Photobucket

[Toothless]

Also, one more quick question...
I've found that since I've started feeding more mice/ rodents, Toothless has become quite frenzied during feeding time- to the point that he'll literally lunge out of the cage at me with jaws open looking for food. He lunged at my face last week, and got a sharp 'NO', which seemed to snap him out of it abit, but I was wondering if anyone had any tips to try and curb this behavior? I was thinking about using a bell, and ringing that before food time, hoping that he may learn not to expect food every time the cage is open (I had to put his water dish in with tongues and oven mitts yesterday, because he kept lunging for my hands LOL).
Mind you, I don't mind his fiesty behaviour during feeding time, but was just hoping there may be some way to stop him from going into feed mode every time the enclosure is opened?

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by Toothless

Also, one more quick question...
I've found that since I've started feeding more mice/ rodents, Toothless has become quite frenzied during feeding time- to the point that he'll literally lunge out of the cage at me with jaws open looking for food. He lunged at my face last week, and got a sharp 'NO', which seemed to snap him out of it abit, but I was wondering if anyone had any tips to try and curb this behavior? I was thinking about using a bell, and ringing that before food time, hoping that he may learn not to expect food every time the cage is open (I had to put his water dish in with tongues and oven mitts yesterday, because he kept lunging for my hands LOL).
Mind you, I don't mind his fiesty behaviour during feeding time, but was just hoping there may be some way to stop him from going into feed mode every time the enclosure is opened?

Target training is a wondrous thing.. There are several ways to go about it, but first you need to pick a color to use. I generally prefer purple as a target to start because it is an uncommon color, though most animals will still distinguish between their target and similarly colored objects. I will say that red as a target color really switches some monitors on, though the salvadorii at Moody Gardens treated everything red as a target when he had a red target. Now his target is black, and he is not as switched on by most other black items. Every animal is different though, I'd try a couple colors and see what works best in your case, it's surprisingly easy to transfer them from one color to another when they know the concept.
Secondly, get the target you want to use, or make one yourself. Moody Gardens uses these a lot: Translucent Training Lollipop Targets [TRG-102] - $10.00 : My Training Store, Dog Training Equipment and Supplies

After that, you can go about training them a few ways. One of the fastest is to say target, touch their nose with the target, then click and give them their reward. They usually catch on pretty quick. If they bite the target, don't reward them, it's best if they only learn to touch it with their nose, so that if they mistake something else for a target, they don't latch on to it.

[infernalis]

use long tongs. Mine have both learned that tongs equal food, no tongs = no food.

[Toothless]

Thank you for the wonderful information! I'll give this a go and see if it works .
Wayne- I have been using tongues to feed (and have actually had to use them a few times (empty) to get him away from my face/ arms if he starts getting too out of control). He knows the tongues mean food, and goes crazy when he sees them. The end of the tongues are white tipped- so I find it helps him go for the right part of the tongue when things are looking crazy . I hate to do this when I don't have food available, but at times my safety over-rides the tongue=food :P. I havn't been bit yet, and wan't to keep it that way. It's almost as it he's searching for the tongues whenever I open the cage, and will go so far as to leap out looking for them (usually snapping as he goes LOL). After feeding him, he will continue trying to jump out after the tongues and I have to hold him in there with a sleeved arm or gloves until I can get the door closed (just in case he decides to take a bite). After the doors closed, he begs and scratches on the door for a few minutes, then sulks away to go bask.

I know he's being fed enough, as I think he's at a good weight and not obese. Could he be bored? His enclosure is kind of dull in my mind comparing it to what they would experience in the wild. His new one will have much more to do, but its taking longer than I anticipated to build it exactly how I want.
It makes me proud that he's so interactive now and starting to pick up on certain things. I think he really does enjoy spending time with me, and is at times very friendly, so I'm wondering if maybe this recent food frenzie may be because he's aggitated from being bored??? Any thoughts?

[DeadlyDesires]

why is he being fed in a tub?

[Toothless]

Originally Posted by DeadlyDesires

why is he being fed in a tub?

His roaches are either fed by tongues, or I'll place them in his water tub when its emptied to give him a bit of excersise and something to chase. I don't like just thowing the roaches in his enclosure because I don't want any escaping and hiding. I then lead him into his tub using the tongues.
If you have a better way to go about it, I would love to hear it .

[DeadlyDesires]

Originally Posted by Toothless

His roaches are either fed by tongues, or I'll place them in his water tub when its emptied to give him a bit of excersise and something to chase. I don't like just thowing the roaches in his enclosure because I don't want any escaping and hiding. I then lead him into his tub using the tongues.
If you have a better way to go about it, I would love to hear it .

if your leading with the tongs.. i dont see anything wrong with it as long as your not picking him up to put him in there or removing him from the enclosure and feeding him outside of it, that was my only concern

[jarich]

I have a few comments. First, by the sounds of it, pretty much the only time you are going into his enclosure, you are feeding him. Is that correct? And every time you feed, you are using tongs in some way? Essentially it sounds like what you are doing is specifically training him to associate your arm with food.

The tongs are ok, but Id recommend feeding more often without the tongs, and to start going into the enclosure without food more often too. Only use the tongs for treats when you want to work with him getting used to you touching him. Sometimes put the gloves on and just hold your arm in the enclosure. He may bite it once or twice, but once he knows its not food, and you break the training that he is going to get food from you every time, I would guess it wont be such a problem.

Also, you sort of answered your own question about making it more interesting for him. I would recommend that you stop feeding roaches or any other live prey that can run with tongs or in a bucket. Dump them straight into the leaf litter and let them run and hide. He will find them, dont you worry, and spend time doing what he does naturally, which is foraging, hunting and digging for them. He will start to get back to associating his environment with food instead of you being the only source. You can do this with the worms too, if you get the right kind. (burying bait worms (European nightcrawlers) will just give you a pile of mush as they cant handle the heat, but if you get the African ones they will live quite happily in the substrate) I would go so far as to say that anything you can do to make getting his food harder is a good thing.

[Toothless]

Originally Posted by jarich

I have a few comments. First, by the sounds of it, pretty much the only time you are going into his enclosure, you are feeding him. Is that correct? And every time you feed, you are using tongs in some way? Essentially it sounds like what you are doing is specifically training him to associate your arm with food.

The tongs are ok, but Id recommend feeding more often without the tongs, and to start going into the enclosure without food more often too. Only use the tongs for treats when you want to work with him getting used to you touching him. Sometimes put the gloves on and just hold your arm in the enclosure. He may bite it once or twice, but once he knows its not food, and you break the training that he is going to get food from you every time, I would guess it wont be such a problem.

Also, you sort of answered your own question about making it more interesting for him. I would recommend that you stop feeding roaches or any other live prey that can run with tongs or in a bucket. Dump them straight into the leaf litter and let them run and hide. He will find them, dont you worry, and spend time doing what he does naturally, which is foraging, hunting and digging for them. He will start to get back to associating his environment with food instead of you being the only source. You can do this with the worms too, if you get the right kind. (burying bait worms (European nightcrawlers) will just give you a pile of mush as they cant handle the heat, but if you get the African ones they will live quite happily in the substrate) I would go so far as to say that anything you can do to make getting his food harder is a good thing.

Thank you so much for the advice. You are right in that most times I interact with him, he gets food of some sort. I had no idea this could cause him to associate me with food (wasn't even thinking about it to be honest). I will make a point to spend more time inside his enclosure without food. As for leaving the roaches loose in the cage, you make a very valid point. He used to always have crickets available for him to track down (and still does), but he refuses to eat them now because they're too small. The problem with leaving the roaches loose in the cage at this point in time is that I will be switching him over to the new enclosure shortly, and do not want any hidden roaches to get into my house when I'm dismantling the current enclosure (its a crazy fear I have lol). Once he's in the permanent enclosure, I have no problem dumping in a bunch of roaches for him to forage for. I'll try picking up some worms and hornworms though and dump some of them in there for now. I could also hang a mouse at the top of his jungle gym every once in a while while he's sleeping. Do you think I should try to dis-associate my presence with food for a while until he calms down? I could find ways to let him find his own food within the enclosure, so that when we interact he doesn't expect food?

[jarich]

Id say just increase the contact you have without food and increase the food in his enclosure that is independent of you. I think the treats work so well with them that you dont want to stop giving him the motivation to interact with you, you just want to make sure its on your terms.

[DeadlyDesires]

Originally Posted by jarich

Id say just increase the contact you have without food and increase the food in his enclosure that is independent of you. I think the treats work so well with them that you dont want to stop giving him the motivation to interact with you, you just want to make sure its on your terms.

I usually open my cage a few times a day 1x for feeding and the others are to say hi.. i open it lean in and talk to him or place my hand on the ground and just leave it there while he hisses at me.. he usually calms down after a min

[Toothless]

That sounds like a great idea. I'll start doing that and see what happens. Thank you.
Does anyone have any comments about the feeders?