The great fish tank debate

[infernalis]

Here it is.. Have at it.

Some people swear they suck for all snakes.

I keep small colubrids, Mainly garter snakes, a racer, a few milks, a corn and a European Natrix.

For these colubrids fish tanks work very nicely, I don't have forced air heat, so the humidity in my house is not dry like most people, These snakes are not temperature or humidity critical animals either, so the tanks work for MY needs. I keep my reptile room at 80-85 all the time too, so supplimental heat is not needed.

Now others have different views... Fire away.

[jarich]

Hahahaha! Too funny, thanks Wayne.

I think to begin with we should acknowledge the fact that there is a difference between the glass aquarium itself and the normal screen lid that many people use when housing a reptile in the glass aquarium. Most of the problems people attribute to fish tanks/glass aquariums are simply problems with the screen lid and not the fish tank/glass aquarium itself.

[Will0W783]

Thanks Wayne...I think this is a good thread. I keep some arachnids in aquariums, and I generally use a 10-gallon tank for quarantining, but I don't like them for long-term housing for snakes.

I have several reasons for this:
(1) The lids are never very secure. Cage clips don't keep the entire lid as securely down along its perimeter, so a determined snake can find a weak spot and push through if it's small enough. Also the screens tend to be held in place with a rubber strip, which can deteriorate over time or work loose, making the screen loose.

(2) Tanks tend to not hold humidity well because the top is so open and they are usually heated with heat lamps, which dry out the air

(3) It's hard to get a good, efficient thermal gradient-- using heat lamps for basking spots will give you a few really hot spots, but most of the hot air wants to escape out of the top through the screen so the rest of the room gets warmer, and the cage isn't evenly heated.


I personally LOVE plastic ABS-type caging. It's secure..doors are usually hinged with latches or sliding with a keyed lock of peg to hold them shut. They also hold humidity really well, and can be heated with a radiant panel for a nice, smooth gradient. Melamine caging can also be great, although it's heavy and tends to warp over time.

Like Wayne, I also heat my reptile room to 80-85F all the time, so I dont' have supplemental heating on all the cages, but I found that tanks dry out too quickly. I use ceramic radiant heaters for the room, but the air in my house tends to be fairly dry to begin with, so cages with less screen hold the humidity from evaporating water dishes much better.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by jarich

Hahahaha! Too funny, thanks Wayne.

I think to begin with we should acknowledge the fact that there is a difference between the glass aquarium itself and the normal screen lid that many people use when housing a reptile in the glass aquarium. Most of the problems people attribute to fish tanks/glass aquariums are simply problems with the screen lid and not the fish tank/glass aquarium itself.

That is correct, I have 4 of the big 55 gallon tanks set up with solid tops.

My BP is kept in a 55 gallon aquarium with a solid plywood top, never once had a shed issue, always eats with gusto, and otherwise lives very normally.

In the beginning, I used the screen top that came with the snake, he shed aweful, bits everywhere, stuck eye caps, you name it.

With the solid plywood top, a large water bowl (it holds a gallon) his needs are met.

[Will0W783]

jarich, that is true, but the combination of the fish tank/screen lid is what is usually meant when people refer to "aquariums" for snakes. I do like the Exo-Terra and ZooMed vertically-oriented habitats for arboreal vipers that need a lot of ventilation. They aren't the typical tank though, and do require lots of misting to hold humidity.

[MoreliAddict]

I use PVC cages, a couple things I will point out about them is:

• You can drill into them, install whatever you want. (perches, heat panels, ect..)
• Stack-able, professional looking.
• Easier (IMO) to approach snakes at their (ground) level, rather than approaching them from above, which fish tanks force you to do.
• Light, easy to transport.
• Provide more security, as the only visibility is through the front window.

1st page by the way...

[jarich]

Originally Posted by Will0W783

I have several reasons for this:
(1) The lids are never very secure. Cage clips don't keep the entire lid as securely down along its perimeter, so a determined snake can find a weak spot and push through if it's small enough. Also the screens tend to be held in place with a rubber strip, which can deteriorate over time or work loose, making the screen loose.

(2) Tanks tend to not hold humidity well because the top is so open and they are usually heated with heat lamps, which dry out the air

(3) It's hard to get a good, efficient thermal gradient-- using heat lamps for basking spots will give you a few really hot spots, but most of the hot air wants to escape out of the top through the screen so the rest of the room gets warmer, and the cage isn't evenly heated.


I personally LOVE plastic ABS-type caging. It's secure..doors are usually hinged with latches or sliding with a keyed lock of peg to hold them shut. They also hold humidity really well, and can be heated with a radiant panel for a nice, smooth gradient. Melamine caging can also be great, although it's heavy and tends to warp over time.

Like Wayne, I also heat my reptile room to 80-85F all the time, so I dont' have supplemental heating on all the cages, but I found that tanks dry out too quickly. I use ceramic radiant heaters for the room, but the air in my house tends to be fairly dry to begin with, so cages with less screen hold the humidity from evaporating water dishes much better.

Again, all three issues are with the lid, and not the tank. A solid lid on a glass tank solves all those problems easily. Maybe we should call this thread "The screen top". Of course then there wouldnt be much debate.

[jarich]

Originally Posted by Will0W783

jarich, that is true, but the combination of the fish tank/screen lid is what is usually meant when people refer to "aquariums" for snakes. I do like the Exo-Terra and ZooMed vertically-oriented habitats for arboreal vipers that need a lot of ventilation. They aren't the typical tank though, and do require lots of misting to hold humidity.

Yes, I understand, but that continuation is what leads to misunderstanding and then the regurgitation of false information. For instance the idea that glass aquariums dont hold heat as well. As Ive mentioned before in other threads, glass is the BEST insulating material you can use for an enclosure, nothing insulates better. Obviously nothing holds humidity/water better either. So if we all started saying screen tops, rather than aquarium or glass tank, then we might more easily move people towards a solution to their problem.

Most people come to the forum already having bought the glass tank. They are cheap and usually sold with the animal. So simply changing the lid is the easiest and best option in most cases, and a totally valid and healthy enclosure for the life of the reptile in most cases.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by jarich

Most people come to the forum already having bought the glass tank. They are cheap and usually sold with the animal. So simply changing the lid is the easiest and best option in most cases, and a totally valid and healthy enclosure for the life of the reptile in most cases.

Could not have said it better.

[MoreliAddict]

Originally Posted by jarich

Most people come to the forum already having bought the glass tank. They are cheap and usually sold with the animal. So simply changing the lid is the easiest and best option in most cases, and a totally valid and healthy enclosure for the life of the reptile in most cases.

Only reason I have a PVC enclosure is because when I was a noob, I saw a post from mykee about how a Ball Python should "NEVER" be kept in an enclosure heated by a heat lamp.

Thanks to his bluntness, I forced myself to do research on PVC cages.

Now I'm great with them, and wouldn't consider keeping my snakies in anything but PVC..

...unless mykee tells me to...

[Lankyrob]

One other thing with a tank is that you have to reach down to get your snake. With a defensive snake approaching above isnt going to help

[Jay]

Originally Posted by infernalis

Could not have said it better.

Nor could I. With slight lid modifications aquariums are great for keeping herps.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

One other thing with a tank is that you have to reach down to get your snake. With a defensive snake approaching above isnt going to help

Also a valid point. One of the reason I keep my atb's in terrariums with sliding glass doors.

[millertime89]

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

One other thing with a tank is that you have to reach down to get your snake. With a defensive snake approaching above isnt going to help

This argument can also be used against tubs. Jussayin.

[jarich]

And cannot be used against front opening glass tanks