Burm Skin Mystery

AjaMichelle · 05-08-12, 05:06 PM

Hi
I have a burmese python who keeps developing the strangest affliction on his ventral scales. Every time it shows up I think I've found the cause, but it's back again, and I'm out of ideas.

The first time I thought he had scraped himself, so I covered the rough spot I thought to be responsible.

The second time I thought it was the result of a mistake on my part. I had the flu and couldn't clean up his urates/poo immediately. I thought perhaps he had laid in the puddle he made, thereby injuring himself.

Then I was cleaning up a poo a few weeks later and found a different rough spot, covered it, and went over his entire enclosure with some nylon stockings, which didn't reveal any other rough areas.

But it's back... again, though to a lesser extent.

Basically it looks like he skinned his scales. The red spots aren't in between his scales but on them. I often find pieces of scale throughout the enclosure.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what in the world is causing this?

Here are some photos:

First time:

Second time:

After he shed:

marvelfreak · 05-08-12, 05:54 PM

Not sure! The second pictures the one mark almost looks like a tick. The rests kind of like scale rot maybe. Maybe even burns. I think i get it to a vet and have it checked out.

AjaMichelle · 05-08-12, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelfreak

Not sure! The second pictures the one mark almost looks like a tick. The rests kind of like scale rot maybe. Maybe even burns. I think i get it to a vet and have it checked out.

Definitely no ticks. He has a radiant heal panel on the ceiling of his enclosure and it doesn't get very hot to the touch. I thought it was scale rot but his enclosure is clean and humid, not dirty and wet. I also change his water regularly, and disinfect everything with a dilute Chlorhexidine solution.

CDN_Blood · 05-08-12, 07:13 PM

Looks like the beginning of scale rot to me. How about some details on what it's being kept in...

AjaMichelle · 05-08-12, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDN_Blood

Looks like the beginning of scale rot to me. How about some details on what it's being kept in...

He's housed in an 8 foot long, 3 foot deep, 2 foot high wood/hardibacker enclosure.
Enough ventilation--- Humidity is 60%
He has a water bowl large enough to submerge completely.
For heat, he has a radiant heat panel mounted on the ceiling on one end of the enclosure. Surface temperature of the basking spot is 90*F, he has a cooler area of about 80*F.

He has a quick dry rug that covers the cool side and middle of his enclosure.

Any time he spills or defecates I try to clean it up immediately.

I use Unique (an enzymatic cleaner) to clean up the poo and urates, and then Chlorhexidine (Nolvasan) to disinfect.

Will0W783 · 05-08-12, 07:34 PM

Honestly, that looks like a fungal infection to me. It could also potentially be a reaction to one of the cleaners you are using....do you rinse thoroughly after using the cleaners?
At any rate, you need to take him to a reptile vet ASAP to determine the microorganism or toxic reaction responsible...whatever it is causing that, it's not good and cannot be ignored.

CDN_Blood · 05-08-12, 07:39 PM

I would downsize the large water basin for now so that it can't soak, remove anything that might be prickly (quick dry rug?) and put some newspaper down. I never use anything but water to clean my tanks, personally, so I don't have any input on the cleaners/disinfectants, but it's quite likely that harsh chemicals sure won't make that feel any better.

If you can get your hands on some Polysporin (or equivalent **WITHOUT** pain-killing ingredients - never use anything with pain-killer in it on a reptile), I'd salve-up those spots and keep it on the dry side with only newspaper for a few days to see if it gets any better.

These are only temporary band-aides that might help a bit until you can get it to a vet for proper treatment, but that's my 2 cents

jaleely · 05-08-12, 07:40 PM

I would think scale rot. I would clean out the cage really well...like kill bacteria kind of clean, make sure all the cleaner is out, change out his enclosure to paper towels or newspaper, and keep him on that until it goes away.
A trip to the vet is always the best, but in the meantime...
If you google scale rot it's caused by unclean living conditions...which doesn't mean you're like, horrible at keeping him or something, but he could have lain in poo or pee and gotten bacteria in his scales, and it's spread.

Edit: wow there was some posts while i was posting *lol* fungal could be responsible too. Now that i see the enclosure, it may be the tile is harboring some bacteria. I'd actually still suggest a good clean, and laying down of paper towels or something. : )

Keep us updated!

AjaMichelle · 05-08-12, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will0W783

Honestly, that looks like a fungal infection to me. It could also potentially be a reaction to one of the cleaners you are using....do you rinse thoroughly after using the cleaners?
At any rate, you need to take him to a reptile vet ASAP to determine the microorganism or toxic reaction responsible...whatever it is causing that, it's not good and cannot be ignored.

Aw man that's lame!

I've had him for a year and was using bleach, then switched to nolvasan in October. I don't rinse the nolvasan. It's a dilute solution and it dries completely before I put him back in. Not that this means anything if he's sensitive to it, of course. I have already called my vet. I'm expecting to hear back from her on Thursday.

Also, those pics are from a month or so ago. He had the first spot which may well have been a scrape (in October). He shed and it was completely gone. Then I didn't see anything again until February, when I was sick.

I was giving him medicated baths and it got better, then was completely gone when he shed (in March). He's been looking fine since. Then this week he's got some weird scales again. I'll try to take some pics tonight.

Thanks for the help!

AjaMichelle · 05-08-12, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDN_Blood

I would downsize the large water basin for now so that it can't soak, remove anything that might be prickly (quick dry rug?) and put some newspaper down. I never use anything but water to clean my tanks, personally, so I don't have any input on the cleaners/disinfectants, but it's quite likely that harsh chemicals sure won't make that feel any better.

If you can get your hands on some Polysporin (or equivalent **WITHOUT** pain-killing ingredients - never use anything with pain-killer in it on a reptile), I'd salve-up those spots and keep it on the dry side with only newspaper for a few days to see if it gets any better.

These are only temporary band-aides that might help a bit until you can get it to a vet for proper treatment, but that's my 2 cents

They aren't harsh chemicals. Chlorhexidine is often used as an antiseptic for amphibians. It's unlikely it's the disinfectant regardless because I was cleaning his wounds with Chlorhexidine when they first appeared and they were healing. I really appreciate your input.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaleely

I would think scale rot. I would clean out the cage really well...like kill bacteria kind of clean, make sure all the cleaner is out, change out his enclosure to paper towels or newspaper, and keep him on that until it goes away.
A trip to the vet is always the best, but in the meantime...
If you google scale rot it's caused by unclean living conditions...which doesn't mean you're like, horrible at keeping him or something, but he could have lain in poo or pee and gotten bacteria in his scales, and it's spread.

Edit: wow there was some posts while i was posting *lol* fungal could be responsible too. Now that i see the enclosure, it may be the tile is harboring some bacteria. I'd actually still suggest a good clean, and laying down of paper towels or something. : )

Keep us updated!

I have already cleaned his enclosure. I use the enzyme cleaner, then a biodegradable soap and water to clean the grout, and finish with the disinfectant.

It's possible that it's fungal (I'm not a vet of course so I can't say for sure) but I would be really surprised if it was scale rot. Chlorhexidine only works against bacterial infections but not fungus. I have some betadine too. I'll speak with my vet and see what she says.
Thanks for the input!

jaleely · 05-08-12, 09:05 PM

No prob! I have an 11 year old ball python that had a little bit of scale rot when i got him. It was more *on* the scales, than between them, so i wasn't sure what it was at first. But, it was periodically over his body. Kind of a red tint to it..(not the skin under the scales) but have since just kept it clean, and done the paper towels, and poof...better! : )
It may not have been scale rot though, either *lol* dunno.
I've since just kept paper towels in there because it's easier to see when it needs cleaned, and he seems to pee in gallons so at least now i can see it rather than with other substrates *lol*
Anyway, i ramble...but yeah keep us updated! He's a nice snake : )

AjaMichelle · 05-08-12, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaleely

No prob! I have an 11 year old ball python that had a little bit of scale rot when i got him. It was more *on* the scales, than between them, so i wasn't sure what it was at first. But, it was periodically over his body. Kind of a red tint to it..(not the skin under the scales) but have since just kept it clean, and done the paper towels, and poof...better! : )
It may not have been scale rot though, either *lol* dunno.
I've since just kept paper towels in there because it's easier to see when it needs cleaned, and he seems to pee in gallons so at least now i can see it rather than with other substrates *lol*
Anyway, i ramble...but yeah keep us updated! He's a nice snake : )

Thanks! He's awesome. He had scale rot when I got him. It was mild, and on his tail. I was able to treat it by keeping him clean and dry. It looked completely different than this.

Using paper towels as a substrate will be near impossible because he's gigantic (as is his enclosure) and he likes to move everything I put in the enclosure around (except the rug).

**millertime89** · 05-08-12, 09:44 PM

I would get either rolls of newsprint to use as substrate or corrugated paper for him. 4-5 layers of the newspaper will make it easy to clean and just as easy to eliminate one possible variable. I don't think its scale rot, it looks like, as you said, he's pulled out scales. I hope you manage to figure out what the cause is, best of luck.

AjaMichelle · 05-08-12, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millertime89

I would get either rolls of newsprint to use as substrate or corrugated paper for him. 4-5 layers of the newspaper will make it easy to clean and just as easy to eliminate one possible variable. I don't think its scale rot, it looks like, as you said, he's pulled out scales. I hope you manage to figure out what the cause is, best of luck.

Thanks!

The scales are still there, only they look scrape. Like the top layer has been removed.
I am going to give the newspaper a try.

**millertime89** · 05-08-12, 10:02 PM

interesting. The reason I say try the rolls of newsprint is because the clean paper won't leave the ink on his scales. I've heard from other keepers of burms and retics that a result of the humidity and the crazy amount they piss the ink can rub off on their scales. You don't wan that while trying to diagnose scale issues.