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Old 05-06-09, 07:00 PM   #1
DeesBalls
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Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

OK now so i got your attention lol i just want to show you a pic of my BP striking and a pic or 2 i just want to know if everything looks good. if i should go a bigger mouse, 2 of these? just pretty much i want to know if everything is going good, thanks!
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Old 05-06-09, 07:01 PM   #2
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

video...

eleanoreeatingincage.flv video by dereck_gilliland - Photobucket

picture( do all ball pythons do this? )




sorry to make you guys click anoter link, but i dont know how to put a video right on here like the pic...
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Old 05-06-09, 07:52 PM   #3
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

so your snake knows what it means when the box is rattled huh?
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Old 05-06-09, 07:53 PM   #4
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

oh by the way everything does look good and i think the size is ok. you could switch to a rat of the same size or a little bigger though and it would be healthier for your snake and you could go longer in between feedings. like a day or two longer. rats are more nutritious for snakes im told.
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Old 05-06-09, 08:06 PM   #5
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

huh, right now, i feed him 1 mouse that size a week... i may try a small rat next time... and yes he knowws when the box is rattleing, its time to eat!!!



*for everyone*
BTW I DONT ALWAYS FEED IN HOUSING CAGE... I JUST DID THIS THING BC IM MOVING AND THE OTHER TANKS IS AT NEW PLACE...
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Old 05-07-09, 08:02 AM   #6
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

How big is he? My 4' male ball ate 2 adult mice a week until I switched him to rat pups of the same size. Snakes like the taste of mice more but they are less nutritious. Basically from what I've read mice are like snake "candy" but rats are the "meat and potatoes". So if you can switch a snake over to rats better to do it early because they can and often do get "addicted" to mice and then will refuse rats when they outgrow mice. And 1 rodent = 1 poop, so if you feed 3 mice = 3 poops vs. 1 adult rat = 1 larger poop. At least that is what I've seen with my snakes- I could be wrong with the turd numbers, so if anyone knows different feel free to call me out on it.
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Old 05-07-09, 08:40 AM   #7
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will0W783 View Post
Snakes like the taste of mice more but they are less nutritious. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmef07 View Post
rats are more nutritious for snakes im told.
dont believe everything you hear...
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Old 05-07-09, 08:48 AM   #8
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

Why do they become hooked on mice and refuse rats after a while of being fed mice?
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Old 05-07-09, 11:45 AM   #9
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

It's true. Rats are more heavily boned and also have more meat to them. and rat pups that aren't weaned yet and are still on mother's milk are very nutritious over mice because rats have a much better milk and the snake then in turn ingests that.
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Old 05-07-09, 12:22 PM   #10
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

Cool. Thanks Kyle!
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Old 05-07-09, 01:41 PM   #11
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

so maybe i should try a small rat pup, i would say that my snake is about 12-15 inches long.. ( thats an estimate )
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Old 05-07-09, 02:09 PM   #12
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

Kyle, you should search for the other thread where we discussed this before. I have the original research done on nutrition of prey animals, and it is not at all clear that rats are "more" nutritious than mice. We have provided a link to the research on this website multiple times.

The fact is that no one has done or published any actual research on what different snake species need for optimal growth, development, and health. THAT would be important information that would enable us to determine which prey animals would promote that level of growth/development/health. But neither I--with access to my university electronic search engines and libraries and publications all over the world--nor anyone else on this forum or others I have been on has been able to find THAT information yet, and several of us did extensive literature research trying to find that information.

Some people claim that "rats are better because the snakes grow faster and bigger on them." Hmmm . . . by that claim, eating hamburgers every day would be better for humans because we grow faster and bigger on them! That is a fallacious argument.

The fact is that faster is not necessarily better; it actually could be worse in terms of longevity and long-term health.

In addition, my area of research includes mammalian and artificial milks and their different nutritional values. Rat milk is NOT "better" than mouse milk; it is simply different. Rat milk is best for baby rats. Mouse milk is best for baby mice.

Neither rat milk nor mouse milk is of any special nutritional value to snakes. Snakes did not evolve on mammalian milk.

Snakes might get some calcium from the milk---IF they actually ingested it! But they don't, and even if they did, it's very possible that it could be chemically bound with other components in milk in a way that the snake is unable to digest it and utilize the calcium or other nutritional components.

In reality, ingesting a rat pup or mouse pup does NOT give the snake any milk at all, as the rat & mice babies convert their mother's milk--as do nearly ALL mammalian babies (except for rabbits & a few others)--very quickly to bone, muscle, energy, etc. That's all the snake gets, not any milk. Hence, rat pups that aren't yet weaned are NOT necessarily any better than mice that are weaned.

When you find the charts we posted, read them carefully. Notice that in some cases, mice have more of some element, rats have more of another. The measurements include energy values, protein, trace elements . . .

Without knowing what levels of protein, fat, calcium, copper, iron, zinc, etc. a particular snake actually NEEDS, we cannot KNOW for sure which levels of copper or iron or protein etc. are appropriate.

We merely guess, and many of those guesses are built solely on what various breeders and keepers have seen based on their own perceptions of how they want their snakes to grow. If someone believes forcing the snake to grow really fast so it reaches maturity more quickly (often so they can breed it sooner even if that is bad for the snake in the long run), then they will want to feed their snakes rats.

Those personal opinions and beliefs are what get into the claims you see that "rats are better than mice," but so far they have not been backed up by any solid evidence from actual research. (At least not that I was able to find when I searched for it end of 2008--if you find some, I would LOVE a copy!)

IMHO, we really need the research on the snakes. Hopefully someday someone will do it.

Edit: Now I'm going to get flamed . . .

Last edited by Chu'Wuti; 05-07-09 at 02:23 PM..
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Old 05-07-09, 05:03 PM   #13
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

HAHA why would you get flamed?????

but im talking about when you can see the white milk in a rat or mouse pup. and rat milk does have higher levels of nutrients in it than mouse milk. I believe i have a web page saved at home on my computer (right now im at work) that my breeder friend sent to me with all the proof needed about that. now does that do anything for our snakes?? no one really knows but it is a good guess that it does. it is widely accepted, by the people around here that deal with reptiles, that if you were to feed a snake a rat that is the same size a mouse then the snake would get more calories from the rat than the mouse of the same size. The way it has been explained to me is that rat meat is like a protien bar and mouse meat is like a candy bar. simular in size but the rat holds a lot more calories and nutrients in the same package. is the research scientific, no, but does it make sense, yes. The breeder friend i have here took a bunch of cbb baby balls a couple years ago and started 6 on mice and 6 on rats from the time they were born. they were from the same clutch. he breeds the mice and rats and feeds them the same food and tried to weigh each one to get them all the same weight. He said that the snakes that he fed rats to grew faster and appeared healthier than the ones that he fed mice to. again not scientific but a good way to test it out and be able to make a pretty good informed decision.

Quote:
Hmmm . . . by that claim, eating hamburgers every day would be better for humans because we grow faster and bigger on them! That is a fallacious argument.
Yes you choose to compare to something that is not healthy. But lets use the same idea and instead of hamburgers put in something with a ton of nutritional value like protien shakes or carb loading or something that is using healthy means to get bulkier. I had friends in high school that played baseball with me and they decided senior year they wanted to put on 20 pounds before the start of the season. so they carb loaded, and instead of lunch drank protein shakes and ate protein bars for snakes. also they lifted at the gym eveyday. they didn't make the 20 pound mark but did manage to put on about 15 pounds each in the month or so they did this. I didn't participate because im a pitcher and we dont' need to get bulky to throw hard but i do not believe that this will in any way affect them long term. If they were to get fat that is a different thing entirely. but i don't feed my snake ratss for a get big quick thing. i feed it rats because it seems to be healthier based on the knowledge i have gathered from different breeders in this area. I will also throw this in that I would feed my snake once every 5-7 days if i were feeding mice but since i feed rats i feed every 7-10 days.

again i could be completely wrong and without any scientific research on the subject we might never know. but "thats my story and im stickin to it". lol (country music fans will get that)
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"A rattlesnake that doesn't bite teaches you nothing."
"Make no mistake, your snake does not love you, it tolerates you"
"Get off my snake, B*tch"
These make me laugh......Kyle
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Old 05-07-09, 05:04 PM   #14
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

damn i tried to write more than here and i was really close!!
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"A rattlesnake that doesn't bite teaches you nothing."
"Make no mistake, your snake does not love you, it tolerates you"
"Get off my snake, B*tch"
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Old 05-07-09, 05:42 PM   #15
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Re: Please look!!!!!! Need help!!!!

Sandy, thank you for that great post! no chance im getting into another one of these...haha
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