Housing/husbandry for False Water Cobra?

Graham85 · 02-23-09, 07:53 PM

I'm looking for some info on housing false water cobras. I am wondering mainly about how moist to keep their enclosure and any other information anyone could give me.

Chu'Wuti · 02-24-09, 01:33 PM

Hopefully someone with some experience with these animals will post soon for you, Graham. Do check your state laws regarding keeping venomous snakes if you haven't done so already.

Joel La Rocque · 08-12-09, 10:47 AM

Everything depends on size!
Your habitat should be no shorter then 2/3's the snakes length. You should have a warm end and a cool end, the warm end should be kept at 85 degrees F. and the cool end around 75 degrees F. ambient. A large water bowl for drinking and soaking at each end preferred but 1 at the warm end is essential. Humidity of 50 to 60 percent is fine and upped to 85 to 100 percent during a shed with misting twice a day. A hide box at each end is vital to remove stress. The hide should be just large enough for it to curl up in with little space left over. After eating, a basking light should be added above the warm end to aid in digesting. The basking temp. should be 98 to 100 degrees F. for about two to three hours a day for 5 days after eating. If must not eat when in a shed cycle or handled. A red light is fine for viewing after dark as they can not see the color red and it appears dark to them. A vet check once a year is sufficient, also add a multi vitamin to its food once a month. It should be fed frozen thawed food only, avoid live prey. The height of the enclosure is not that vital but if you have a tall enclosure it will climb every now and then. The heat source should come from under (not in contact with) the tank, a heating pad kept on low will usually bring the temp up to 92 degrees + - . Remember to treat this snake as a venomous animal! because it is one!

Hope this helped Joel

Will0W783 · 08-13-09, 07:50 AM

Joel, you have a lot of experience with FWCs it seems. They are awesome snakes, aren't they? I've got a yearling, and he's just the coolest little guy. I use gloves to pick him up, but I do freehandle him. Maybe I shouldn't but he's never tried to bite me. I've heard contradicting things about their venom- some say it can be really bad, others say it's similar to a hognose snake. What have you heard?

Joel La Rocque · 08-13-09, 06:59 PM

The venom is comparable under a microscope to most elapids, mambas, cobras etc. The problem is delivering the pay load. A yearling would be easy to get off your hand. One of the ones here is well over seven feet and weighs in at almost 8 pounds. If she grabs you by the neck, you have a real problem. Remember what I said about the Boomslang, in the late 1950's they were sold in pet stores. With their popularity in the Herp. world I believe it is just a matter of time before someone winds up dead as a result of a bite. I am never paranoid, with 57 tags to my discredit, I wish I were a little more so. Nothing is dangerous until it happens to the other guy and then it is to late for him. The Boomslang incident took place in England. I handle ours only when we get a call for venom and that is almost an impossible thing now unless it was to save a life or design an anti venom. Please be careful especially during a feeding response, when they smell food! anything that moves is fair game.

Joel La Rocque · 08-13-09, 07:18 PM

Please excuse my post! I have been asked three times this week about the FWC and I should explain my earlier post. The venom of a FWC has the same components as those of elapids. It is known as a 3FTX venom or a three fingered venom. Most rear fanged snakes do not have a large enough reservoir to cause much of a problem should a bite occur. The Boomslang is different and its venom is similar to the venom's of a viper or pit viper. In the 1940's and 50's they were sold everywhere as pets. A Lab Herpetologist who's name I have forgotten was bit by one and laughed it off. The following day he was running late, his staff called to check on him and he said he felt fine and would be in within the hour. He never made it, he dropped dead of a massive hemorage. The first sign of trouble is when you brush your teeth and spit a few of them out in the sink! You melt!
Believe me, I am to old to ruin my reputation by filling you folks up with $#@*%#, Even a hognose possesses this type of venom but they don't bite for one and if they did, they can't deliver enough venom to cause much damage. A seven foot FWC or Mangrove snake is different. I know some will not believe me and that's fine, I want to get my point across to the intelligent people who have a future working with these wonderful animals. I speak the truth, count my fingers or look at my hands in general. I don't want you good people to have a matching set. Later Joel

siz · 08-13-09, 08:48 PM

Joel I just wanted to say that your posts were very interesting to read...so thanks! haha
I think rear fanged snakes are truly amazing and I would love to work with these snakes in future..the far future. Mangroves (since you mentioned them) are awesome! They are on the list

Do you have any?

Joel La Rocque · 08-14-09, 06:39 AM

Hi Siz:
No I do not have a Mangrove, there was never much (If any) demand for the venom, The only guy that sells them in the US that I know and trust is Bill Gillingham of Great Valley Serpentarium in California. He is a very reputable man who sells hatchlings.

Thank you for the kind words. Joel

Will0W783 · 08-14-09, 07:42 AM

Thank you Joel. I appreciate your experience and advice. I am and will continue to be, careful with my FWC. I work with him a lot so that when he gets larger he will be less inclined to bite. However I do not put my hands in any of my snakes' cages during feedings. That is just asking for trouble -venomous or not, they are going by instinct alone when food smell is in the room. I also have a hognose, and he's quite docile. I've had him about a year and he's never even hissed at me or my fiance. They are quite adorable, fascinating little creatures. I checked out your website- very impressed! You collect venom as needed for research and developing antivenins- how awesome and important! I also really like your attitude towards your snakes; you seem to truly understand and appreciate them.

jparker1167 · 08-19-09, 11:04 AM

i posted this on the other false water cobra topic so i guess ill post it here too.

this is the info i got from bryan when i asked about the venom of the false water cobra

yes and no. The toxicity is on par... which means it is fairly weak. Takes about 100 milligrams for a typical rattlesnake to kill. A big Hydrodynastes (I hate the common name false water cobra since it can't be a false anything that lives on another continent, Brasilian smooth snake is a better common name), will never be able to give that much yet alone deliver it. the composition is still fairly unknown as to which toxins are in there

it is no where near as toxic as a cobra or krait and you can quote me on that.

jparker1167 · 08-22-09, 10:49 PM

joel where did you get that the venom is comparable to elapids mambas and cobras? mambas and cobras are both elapids

Joel La Rocque · 08-23-09, 08:44 AM

To most people, snake keepers included they see the results of a bite and equate what they see visually to a species of snake known to cause a similar type of wound, ie. Rattlesnake: Swelling, tissue destruction, abnormal Pk. results etc. For general discussion, I have no problem with that. The composition of FWC (Gigi's, Bicinctus,Schwartzi) Duvernoy's secretions when viewed under a scanning electron microscope shows a few other chemical fractions.
The fraction that causes the swelling and tissue destruction is active on the 38,000MW similar to Crotalus (but not the same as) Atrox. It is comparable to the Phospholipase A2 enzymes. This is (in my opinion) the only similarity between the FWC and any Crotaline venom to date. The actions that are not seen mainly because of the minute presence at this time, is the Muscarinic Toxins which act presynaptically on Nicotinic Acetylcholine receptors ie. Alpha Neurotoxins Type 1 and Type 2. These toxins act in the same manner as most neurotoxins found in Elapids. The Type 1 toxins are short chained amino acids having from 60 to 73 amino acids and four or five disulphide bridges. Type 2 have a "C" terminal extension which binds to Alpha 2 forms of Nicotinic and Acetylcholine receptors.
At present there have been few instances of prolonged contact bites from an adult FWC, this is not to say it will not happen in the future. You also must take into account the home range of the FWC. In Jungle regions, there are abundant cases of snake bites and deaths which go unreported. It is my opinion that if there were to take place a prolonged contact bite from an adult FWC, the slight appearance of swelling, Blebs, local pain etc. would be the least of the problems. There are sufficient quantities of neurotoxins within the secretions available to cause a full blown Elapid type envenomation if there is an extended length of contact between a human and a FWC. Note the length of time it takes a prey item to stop struggling once the FWC has embedded its rear fangs into the flesh? These effects are not caused by a Cytotoxin or a Cardiotoxin. Neurotoxins are present in the Duvernoy's secretions of FWC's.

The next complication we have is the fact that a vast majority of snake owners were sold Hydrodynastes Bicinctus, and the owners believe their snakes to be Gigi's! This has led to a vast debate as to what type of venom the FWC actually has. The two must be inspected side by side to note the difference in scalation and the length of the skull. Bicinctus tends to cause a more pronounced destruction of tissue at the bite site. In the Bicinctus home range, mice and short haired rats are the main prey. In the Gigi's home range these items are also taken as well as larger mammal's. The venom of a true Gigi's is less virulent to flesh with more systemic actions being noted of the central nervous system ie. Metallic taste in mouth, tingling along the hair line of the scalp etc. In either case it would be considered prudent to handle either sub-species with the same care as one would render to any venomous species of snake. No one with any amount of intelligence wants to be known as the Karl. P. Schmidt of the False Water Cobra world. I truly believe that it is not far off in the future when we will here of the first documented fatality as a result of a FWC bite. The findings of an electron microscope do not lie, all that is needed is for the right person to get tagged and my predictions will come to fruition.

jparker1167 · 08-23-09, 03:01 PM

well i talked to bryan fry (venom researcher) and his exact words when i asked him about your post saying the venoms are comparable under a microscope he said venom + microscope = fail ill ask him to come and post here. when it comes to venom fry is the one ill trust.

Will0W783 · 08-24-09, 08:09 AM

I looked at a picture of H. bicinctus, and it looked quite different than all the false water cobras I've seen. My FWC looks nothing like that picture of it. The head is all wrong. Maybe there are better pictures out there, but this is what I found (Note only the last picture is of my snake- the others I got off the web).

The first picture is of H. bicinctus, the second one of H. gigas, and the third one is of my FWC, which I firmly believe to be true H. gigas. What does everyone else think?

Joel La Rocque · 08-24-09, 08:13 AM

Are you so gullible that you think Bryan Greg Fry actually answered YOUR post to him???God I found another one... Fry has several idiots answering for him on general questions, Try asking him a personal question such as (Is there anything I can inject to slow down my cancer). You will not receive a reply because his cronies do not want to get into the Dog house. This guy is all over the world and has his little band of followers posting his exploits to make him look like a big man to young IDIOTS!! God grow up, you are far from being important enough for Fry to take two minutes to answer your questions. Try Wolf Wooster, You might have a chance there, His fame has not gone to his head YET!!
As for me, I try and help kids learn the truth and to do things the right way, I take the time to answer my posts and frankly I could be helping some kid who wants to learn but I am wasting my time with you. This is the last reply and believe who you will, Better yet join the Greg Fry fan club and win an autographed photo to sit on your Grass snake tank!