Should we have WC animals?

Bryce Masuk · 07-13-03, 01:41 AM

Should we be allowed to take animals from the wild steal there freedom/deplete wild populations and keep them in a cage that protects them from habitat destruction or being killed for skin in some cases?
Should be be buying farmed animals even? and support people who pack animals in horriable condtions and send them oversea's to us while many die along the way then line there pockets with cash while 3rd world workers work themself to the bone for these people and make Nearly nothing.....
If you support it why? I am obviously against it but I am open minded and willing to listen....

Zoe · 07-13-03, 02:43 AM

I am against keeping WC animals for the most part. In some cases it's understandable (that doesn't make it okay), like with chondros. They are pretty hard to breed but a lot of people want them, and so they are taken from the wild and I don't really have a problem with that.
But when I hear about people finding and keeping black rat snakes, garters, milks, water snakes, etc. it really irritates me. Why steal an established animal from the wild when they are readily accessible in the CB pet trade? It may seem cool to find stuff and keep most don't understand the implications. You can just take an animal that looks healthy and expect it to thrive in captivity. It doesn't work that way. These animals were used to perfectly balanced nature, with enough space to find a better suited area. Unless you're ready to spend hundreds on vet fees, these animals' systems are going to go balistic. AND it isn't fair to the animal. If you're brought up in an apartment your entire life its okay, but if you're used a big beautiful mansion and then get moved to little apartment... ya know.

If you REALLY want a black rat snake or garter or whatever and are too damned cheap to BUY a CB one, then catch a gravid female, keep the eggs (or babies) and let the mother go. The rest of the babies can be set free.

Zoe

Scales Zoo · 07-13-03, 03:13 AM

I don't like seeing thousands of snakes brought in for petstores, when most of them are going to die at some stage of the cycle. It is such a waste, and I would much rather see petstores support captive breeding- regardless of cost. (which may actually be lower in the long run if one factors in the amount of deadstock that they deal with in the wild caught biz)

Getting snakes from places that are being deforested, where the snakes won't be able to live anymore and risk extinction, so they can be saved in captivity and hopefully bred in the future is another story.

Having access to fresh blood lines for some species of snakes is a good thing for dedicated breeders and zoos, and those who hope to be able to keep and breed these species in the future.

Farming, and filliing CITES quotas with snakes that are partially man made, rather than raping wild populations - is generally good in my books as well.

If all farming and wild collecting was outlawed 10 years ago, this hobby would be pretty boring in comparison to what it now is - and I would guess that there would be a few species that would be near extinction - that are not now.

I'm generally against wild collecting and some farming, but it does have it's place. I think things could improve a lot.

I used to be totally against wild caught and farming until I listened to a few good points from friends.

Ryan

fateamber · 07-13-03, 06:00 AM

I think mostly you should have cb and sometimes farmed is ok, for some species wild caught is ok for a few animals but not taking thousands.

Pixie · 07-13-03, 08:56 AM

I didn't vote as there wasn't an answer that really corresponds with my feeling about WC.

In my opinion, the only possible good reason to obtain specimens from the wild is because they aren't available as CB animals and the collection of the animals would be for breeding purposes to start providing CB animals of that particular species.

With most of the reptile species being available as CB, I think it's a shame that WC animals are still found on sale in almost every pet shop...

Gotta love economics...

Pixie

reptilez · 07-13-03, 01:19 PM

What are farmed animals??

fateamber · 07-13-03, 01:22 PM

My bp is farmed, i wanted to buy a captive bred bp but there arn't really enough of them available around me, i know i could of got one of the internet but i don't like the idea of shiping one to my house, i'm not sure why i just don't.

fateamber · 07-13-03, 01:23 PM

A captive farmed animal is where the eggs are colected from the wild and hatched in captivity.

Gregg M · 07-13-03, 01:50 PM

Wild caught animals do serve a perpose........ WC animals offer fresh blood lines...... If kept properly, WC reptiles can be as healthy as CB reptiles...... Allthough I am not a big fan of WC reptiles, some times they are needed to mix up my blood lines..... What do you guys think is worse, wild caught herps or inbred herps to create those silly color and pattern morphs???

Wuntu Menny · 07-13-03, 01:58 PM

Ok, this should ruffle some feathers:
I have to support farmed for human consumption only, not for the pet trade. From what I've seen, farm raised animals come in just as disease ridden and parasite loaded as WC, sometimes worse due to the high density populations. I do support WC for the establishment of CB colonies and groups only. I see no reason for the massive collection and export of the common species that wind up as disposable pets or subsequently threatened due to overharvesting.

Human consumption!!?? Now you're horrified, aren't you? Well, as much as I enjoy my hobby, I am an omnivorous organism and I have consumed reptile flesh on occasion. I'd have to say it was very nice with a little green peppercorn sauce. I did sense a slight moral conflict at the time, but to a far lesser degree than I would have had the creature been snatched from the wild prior to being sauteed to perfection.

I don't agree with farming for skins alone like some of the alligator and crocodile operations. The same can be said for the Asian and South American snake hunters that harvest the pythons and boas strictly for the vain masses bent on adorning themselves with reptile hides. I'm talking about efficient use of the animals being farmed, in the beef industry they use the term "carcasse performance". It sounds brutal, but that's the harsh reality of being a human these days.

Please don't take this the wrong way and judge it on an emotional scale. Instead, view it with objectivity, perhaps taking into consideration some of your own eating habits. Unless you are purely vegetarian, you have to understand my position.

A little food for thought...

WM

eyespy · 07-13-03, 01:59 PM

I think that WC animals should be to improve bloodlines, as Gregg M said, or to establish a good source of captive bred animals but should not be the industry standard it is today.

It absolutely kills me that some animals are so very easy to breed but that it's cheaper to rape the wild populations than to feed and house the blood stock.

Turtles and tortoises spring to mind as a prime example. Many popular species breed well in captivity but because of silly laws like the 4 inch rule in the US, salmonella fears and economics we continue to steal them from their homes instead of producing lovely little shelled wonders in our homes.

Gregg M · 07-13-03, 02:08 PM

Gator farms are not as bad as some might think....... The entire gator is used when killed....... The skins are used and there is a pretty big market for gator meat down south....... The gators are dispatched humanely....... Usually a 22 caliper bullet to the brain...... I can not see killing any animal just so people can look fashionable but, if the entire animal is used then I am fine with it as long as wild populations are not affected........

eyespy · 07-13-03, 02:22 PM

I can actually deal with farming better when it's for meat, or things like Chinese or Ayurvedic medicine, better than when it's for the pet trade. So many pets are abused or neglected by owners, brokers and pet shops whereas at least animals farmed for human consumption are kept in good health and humanely killed. I don't use the products personally but think people have the right to their traditional menus and medicine.

Most of the folks who buy and sell herps aren't the caring, intelligent folks who frequent discussion boards like this and so many of those mass-farmed animals have a pretty abysmal quality of life. When it costs less than $2 per animal to buy a hundred lot of monitors, snakes, turtles, iguanas, whatever there is no real motive for morons to care about husbandry and humane conditions.

Bryce Masuk · 07-13-03, 06:21 PM

I am not 100% against WC and farmed But I will only support it for species we dont have in captivity or we need new bloodlines but when Were talking about ball pythons and anoles it pisses me off. anoles are the MOST abused of them all because any kid can afford one. then it dies a few weeks later because of horrable care. They are so disposeable its sad there are What? like 2-3 breeders of them in the world?
I say we take only What we absoutely need and leave the rest in the wild not continue to get wc because its cheaper then Cb

burmer · 07-13-03, 06:24 PM

Thats a tough question to say yes or no to. There are some in betweens there. I do agree that it keeps the bloodlines fresh. I don't have a problem with buying WC if it's something thats not available normally. I have two WC animals myself. A Nile monitor and a burm. I got the Nile because I've always wanted one and was finally able to have the proper set up. The burm is another story. My buddy saw him at a show and he had such a cool pattern and nice coloring that I got him.
I do try not to make a habbit out of buying WC.