Corn Snake sneezing again...

Bacon · 01-28-15, 08:39 PM

I was on here almost a year ago with my corn and an RI (or what seemed like one). I sure you can see where this is going. Since too much information is probably better than too little... I've written a small book, I deeply appreciate any thought or insight.

The short of it being: Bacon is an '08 I bought at a show in OCT-13. In January last year I moved him to the living room and he started getting restless and then sneezing. He took a few trips to the vets. All in all over 4 months or so he got a 3 vet trips, 2 fecals, a 9 dose round of fortaz, dewormed with panacur/metronidazole, culture + sensitivity (negative), new bedding and eventually moved back to the other room he was originaly in. He went off food after the first vet trip and lost some weight. The only thing to make a difference seemed to be the room as the sneezing and restlessness stopped and he turned back into his lazy, hungry self. He gained back all the weight and then some. Chalked it up to stress or maybe allergies.

Come this past December, I brought him back out to the living room, and upgraded him to a 4x2x2 viv. The room he'd been in gets chilly in the winter and I wanted to give him a better elcosure. The new cage has a RHP, soil substrate, lots of cover and many hides. Temps are mid 80s on the warm side and room at the cool/several hides. He seemed to adjust fine, found all the hides, spent time basking, had a nice shed, took two mice (one per week) all in all doing fine... Until the last week or so.

He's again been persistently trying to get out the front glass like its the end of the world, refused his mouse 2 weeks in a row and now the sneezes are back. He is most sneezy when he is actively trying to get out (pushing on the glass, trying to squeeze out between the panes or down into the litter dam) - when he is calm no sneezes. I'm assuming because he is breathing heavier. It's in the nose region, I can't feel any rattling or popping in his body area though I'll be honest I'm not sure exactly where his lung is. It's the same "chuff" noises as last winter. Could this be the same thing? New thing? Coincidence? Stress/allergies?? How often do snakes get sneezy when it's not an RI? Or conversely, how long can a RI linger and go basically unnoticed?

I've upped his heat a little but I'm still getting used to the RHP and don't want to cook him, and covered his glass with a blanket. It's only been up for an hour or so and the lights have been off but he's calmed down and was coiled up in his hide. My first thought is to put him back in his little tank (the big one won't fit in any other room) in another less busy room and see if that does anything. I'm also now worried about my little Hognose who lives above him. He actually started sneezing too but then promptly shed and I haven't heard another peep from him.

If moving him doesn't clear it/calm him down again, then I'm thinking I need to get bloods done. I'll be looking for a new vet - the last one gave some poor advice and I generally dislike the clinic. Unfortunately they are the "recommended" exotics practice in my area. Considering I might be up for a drive and want to get the best I can out of this... Any suggestions on questions for helping screen a new vet (or recommendations for central Ohio), I am all ears.

jjhill001 · 02-03-15, 08:31 PM

Sometimes they sneeze to get stuff out of their nasal passages.

What's your humidity sitting at? What's the temp on the warm side, cool side? Overall air temp? I find it hard to believe that your snake caught an RI unless your humidity is like WAY out of whack or something. Corn snakes have a pretty wide range of acceptable temps and humidity than most species.

It is winter so it's not absurd for a snake to skip a few meals.

Can you describe the sneezes? Is it accompanied by wheezing or anything like that?

I'm not a vet but with these questions answered we might be able to help deduce what's going on and hopefully save you some money.

Bacon · 02-09-15, 06:11 PM

Thanks for the response and sorry I didn't see you had posted on this sooner. Shortly after I posted this he went into a shed cycle and I didn't want to bother him too much and was waiting to see what happens after.

He had a good shed last night, though as of this morning still has some of the sneezes. I did try looking at his nose more closely after your suggestion thought I'm not sure what an obstructed nose would look like. Is it possible to have retained nose plugs? I'll try to get some photos, but he isn't so thrilled about me being in his face.

To answer your questions.

Temps:
Warm Air : 79 - 84 (weather station daily min/max)
Warm Surface 88 - 90 (88 is on the stone top to his warm hide, an he has an RHP and a branch below it he can stretch out on and get a little warmer than the 90)
Warm Hide : 80 (ground) 85 (stone top)
Cool side : 74
Humidity : 25-35% (min/max)

The sneezes are sort of a 'puff' out the back corners of his mouth, the sound is sort of like if you have wet lips puff a little air out. No wheezing, no discharge, no open mouth breathing and I can't hear anything when I hold him up to my ear (we wasn't impressed with this either).

Last year he didn't show the other symptoms (he did have bubbles, mouth breathing and head up a lot) until after he was seen by the vet and was super agitated. I'd like to spare him that experience again if its something like allergies or some sort of nose injury.

wrecker45 · 02-09-15, 06:23 PM

I have a milksnake that use to sneeze. Maybe a bit of shed or substrate in a nostril. An r.i. would have muckase in it's mouth.

jjhill001 · 02-10-15, 06:39 AM

Your humidity is pretty low. That is desert level right there. Mist a bit to get it up. Or get a bigger waterbowl. Check his mouth for something that could create gaps in his mouth. IE buildup or swelling. Maybe your soil substrate is a little loose or dusty because of the humidity level.

Bacon · 02-10-15, 07:26 AM

It's been challenging to keep higher, he's got a 6qt tub for a waterdish on the warm side, I was hoping it would help, but looks like I might need to block off a vent and do a lot more misting. I thought I'd read that my humidity was low but still in range - regardless I'm happy for the correction, what's a good range to go for?

When I mist him today I'll take a closer look at his mouth. I havnt seen anything suspicious previously.

Thank you.

jjhill001 · 02-10-15, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacon

It's been challenging to keep higher, he's got a 6qt tub for a waterdish on the warm side, I was hoping it would help, but looks like I might need to block off a vent and do a lot more misting. I thought I'd read that my humidity was low but still in range - regardless I'm happy for the correction, what's a good range to go for?

When I mist him today I'll take a closer look at his mouth. I havnt seen anything suspicious previously.

Thank you.

Really anything not lower than 45% or higher than 80% is probably best. In captivity even most desert species need 40-50% (because they are under rocks in moist burrows in the wild).

Corn Snakes are from the Southeastern US so you have to think that humidty in much of that range is probs 50% at the lowest probably in the winter time. You don't go over 80 because in the wild even if they may live in 80+ humidity air for lengthy periods of time outside air is way fresh.

I'll give you some tips on my lunch break.

Bacon · 02-10-15, 08:41 AM

Thanks for the info, it makes sense too - it's never been remotely dry the times I've been to Alabama. It's embarrassing really. Since this happened last winter around the same time could it be from irritation from too low humidity instead of a viral/bacterial infection?

When I checked him out this morning after misting the cage he did seem to have a little saliva around his lips and has a whistle/wheeze going now

I made a short video. It's got the wheeze, a small sneeze and a big sneeze at the end. http://youtu.be/SvSrfUjPRlw

jjhill001 · 02-10-15, 11:16 AM

Well lets hope the misting can raise the humidity up a bit. The humidity could be knocking some lung gunk loose. Like it does when you are sick and take a hot shower. Hopefully he'll be fine. Usually ambient humidity is good enough but winters kill humidity especially up North here in Ohio. One thing that could help is increasing ambient humidity in the room. I do this by putting old coffee cans of water near the heating element in the room (baseboards for me). This also helps with things like dry skin and stuff in people.

Bacon · 02-10-15, 01:15 PM

I'll give the water cans a go. I've also got a mini ultra-sonic/cool mist humidifier. Would it be worth trying to set it up outside the cage vent or would this be more harm than help?

I've got an appointment for him with the vet tonight - I'd like it to be something like dry air or allergies, but I'd hate it to be something else. I'm a bit worried they just send me home with baytril shots again. Are there questions I ought to ask or other treatments in the case it's just some irritation, rather than just going straight to injections.

Bacon · 02-10-15, 06:29 PM

The vet visit went well. Based on the timing being same as last year and other lack of symptoms we decided to monitor him and work on the humidity. His mouth/trachea is clear and healthy looking and the rest of him in good shape. Antibiotics and further diagnostics are in the back pocket if he declines.

I misted the tank heavily this morning but it was down to 35% again (with one vent blocked off), when I got home, so i put his water dish closer to the heat panel and I'm looking at rigging up the humidifier. The soil was only really dry in the back corners, but I gave it a soaking for good measure. He seems intrigued by the humidifier and keeps sticking his face in the mist.

The vet also suggested a rain chamber, have you done this?

Cmwells90 · 02-10-15, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacon

The vet also suggested a rain chamber, have you done this?

I don't know if that much humidity is needed. Misting a few days a week keeps me in line, mind you I have the screen top covered with plastic to keep the humidity in. But that's me.

Bacon · 02-10-15, 09:37 PM

Yah, I'm hopeing not to have to go to extremes - I much prefer to get his habitat in spec even if it means misting in the morning and running a humidifier for him for a bit later in the day. He also seems to be interested (at the very least not bothered or terrified) in those things from his behavior. I'll keep up with this, and hopefully it's what he will feel better.

I've a mostly closed up box (solid top, vents on two sides and sliding glass front) and have been misting several times per week. :/

Cmwells90 · 02-11-15, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacon

I've a mostly closed up box (solid top, vents on two sides and sliding glass front) and have been misting several times per week. :/

What kind of substrate do you use? I use coco husk and it retains water and slowly releases it so the humidity is stable.

Bacon · 02-11-15, 07:07 AM

I've got a soil mix (sand, topsoil, coco husk) which should be a similar principle.