Help. California Kingsnake not growing.

[barbicrash]

Ok so I didn't go into it on my welcome post but I have a concern and if anyone has any advice or suggestions or even reassurances I would greatly appreciate it.

In November 2013, I bought a California Kingsnake hatchling and was told she was 3-4 months old. She is not the banded type, she is mostly white with black stripes and a mostly black head. I named her Sindel (she was sexed at the convention). I was told she was being fed frozen pinkies once a week but when I attempted to feed her a thawed frozen pinkie, she got annoyed, rattled her tail and refused to eat it. I found a nearby reptile shop that sold live so I tried a live pinkie and she ate it and has been eating them ever since. I try and feed her once a week but there are times when it turns into 10 days, sometimes even 2 weeks due to my work schedule. A few days ago, I did the math and realized she was about a year old but she looks only very slightly bigger. When I asked the guy at my reptile shop (he's very knowledgeable), he showed me some banded kingsnakes that were 6 months old and they looked fatter than mine and slightly longer. He said I need to move her up to fuzzies which is why she hasn't grown so today I bought her one and she ate it. I'm now going to start feeding her two fuzzies a week because I feel like she's very small for her age.

Anyway, my question is, I have heard of this "power feeding" thing and that its unhealthy. Would you all consider two fuzzies a week to a possibly underfed snake as powerfeeding? Also will she grow as normal now that I've upped her meals considerably or have I stunted her growth or something lol? She doesn't seem to be sick, she's responsive, is very active (probably hunting) but hasn't shed for a few months. She has some loose skin which I thought was her about to shed but maybe its because she's underweight? I live in Los Angeles, so heat is rarely an issue, especially now that its July. Shes in a ten gallon and has plenty of room even with the hides. If you need photos, I can take pics and post them so you can all see her size. Sorry for the uber detailed post, but this is my first snake and the Internet has conflicting solutions. Oh and yes I realize that one pinky every 10 days for a hatchling isn't enough but like I said, I'm going to be much more diligent about her feeding schedule.

[drumcrush]

Two fuzzies in not power feeding at all, not for the age of that king. My garter is a year old and just was moved up from two fuzzies. For being a year old an eating pinkies, she most likely was/ is under weight. You will need to eventually get a bigger tank. A 20 gal. Long at the least, but bigger is always better(provided with enough hiding spaces) . And pictures would be nice.

Anyways, welcome to the forums I hoped I helped some

[EL Ziggy]

It sounds like your king is a bit undersized but you should be able to beef her up. A yearling should definitely be able to handle 2 fuzzies a week. A general rule of thumb is to feed prey items 1 to 1.5x the widest part of the snakes body. I typically feed my kings every 5-6 days until they reach the one year mark then I feed them every 6-7 days. I feed them 10-15% of their body weight per feeding. This system has worked well for me. There are other effective feeding plans as well. I alwo agree with Kyle that you'll probably need a larger enclosure soon. Best wishes.

[franks]

Welcome! Post some pics of your snake and set up for us. The quicker you get off of pinkies the better. You should be trying to feed your snake a mouse with as much fur as he can handle. If he can take hoppers go right to them. The more bone mass on the mouse the more nourishing for your snake.

Edit: when determining what your snake can handle El ziggy is dead on with general rule of thumb sizing for prey. Good luck.

[barbicrash]

Originally Posted by drumcrush

Two fuzzies in not power feeding at all, not for the age of that king. My garter is a year old and just was moved up from two fuzzies. For being a year old an eating pinkies, she most likely was/ is under weight. You will need to eventually get a bigger tank. A 20 gal. Long at the least, but bigger is always better(provided with enough hiding spaces) . And pictures would be nice.

Anyways, welcome to the forums I hoped I helped some

Ok that's good to know cause I'd like for her to get as big as possible! Another issue that I forgot to mention above is part of my not moving her up in feeder size was due to the fact that I have a huge HUGE phobia of rodents. I understand and accept that its just part of being a snake owner and I need to get over it, and I have a bit. The live pinkies were not bad at all. I think I kept feeding her pinkies due to not wanting to deal with more mature mice but the fuzzy wasn't bad at all and now that im concerned about her weight, I'm even more willing to just get over it lol. I'm slowly getting over my mice phobia. But I did have two further questions about feeding. Once she gets big enough to eat hoppers and adults, exactly how "dangerous" is live feeding. I've heard so many different answers but live is much easier for me, plus the only time she's ever refused food was the thawed pinkie. Also, I asked the reptile shop guy if she could eat pinkies her whole life but in bigger quantities, he said yes but I wasn't aware it was at the expense of her growth rate. Do snakes grow based on quantity or size of prey or a little of both?

Also, I'm considering getting more snakes in the future, maybe ill get a garter as well since don't they like fish? And yes you did help me out, thank you!

Edit: I'm not home at the moment (posting from phone) but ill take pics of her tomorrow morning and post them so you can all see her size.

[drumcrush]

Originally Posted by barbicrash

Ok that's good to know cause I'd like for her to get as big as possible! Another issue that I forgot to mention above is part of my not moving her up in feeder size was due to the fact that I have a huge HUGE phobia of rodents. I understand and accept that its just part of being a snake owner and I need to get over it, and I have a bit. The live pinkies were not bad at all. I think I kept feeding her pinkies due to not wanting to deal with more mature mice but the fuzzy wasn't bad at all and now that im concerned about her weight, I'm even more willing to just get over it lol. I'm slowly getting over my mice phobia. But I did have two further questions about feeding. Once she gets big enough to eat hoppers and adults, exactly how "dangerous" is live feeding. I've heard so many different answers but live is much easier for me, plus the only time she's ever refused food was the thawed pinkie. Also, I asked the reptile shop guy if she could eat pinkies her whole life but in bigger quantities, he said yes but I wasn't aware it was at the expense of her growth rate. Do snakes grow based on quantity or size of prey or a little of both?

Also, I'm considering getting more snakes in the future, maybe ill get a garter as well since don't they like fish? And yes you did help me out, thank you!

Edit: I'm not home at the moment (posting from phone) but ill take pics of her tomorrow morning and post them so you can all see her size.

I've fed my king both live and frozen and then just decided to stick with the frozen so that switch wasn't very hard for me. A trick I've heard(and worked for me on my garter) was braining the mice. as far as danger goes with feeding live, if you don't leave the mouse in with the snake and walk away then you should be fine. My king hasn't gotten bit with feeding adult mice but I didn't want to risk it. So when you get to the adult size, just watch so you can prevent any dangers.and the thing with staying on pinkys ive read that they don't have a well established skeletal system so the calcium levels are a bit lower compared to more mature mice.

Moving on to the garter, yes they can eat fish but only certain kinds.Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet read through this and you will know why. This is the best caresheet for garters I've seen.

[barbicrash]

Alright here are some photos I took while spot cleaning her terrarium. I just fed her a fuzzy yesterday so she's been hiding ever since digesting. I intended to put her on a hardback book so you could see the relative size but she got super annoyed when I tried to pick her up so I just left her in there. The ones with blue substrate are from today. She has a big lump cause of the fuzzy. The one where she's in my hand is from late last year and I don't feel she's a whole lot bigger from then. Maybe slightly longer, not fatter.

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I have another concern as well. Shes definitely calmed down a lot during handling, but even now she runs away and tenses up when I open her cage. She has never bitten me but has pooped on me many times though she doesn't seem to do that anymore. She always calms down almost immediately after I pick her up, but the running away thing is frustrating. This morning, I think may have striked at me. I couldn't really tell if it was a strike or she was just wriggling too much. Anyway, do these snakes ever relax. I was told you're not supposed to handle them everyday, but maybe I should now? I don't want an aggressive snake.

[franks]

You should not handle your snake while there is still a "food lump" on it. You should wait two days after feeding before handling. The snake "pooping" on you when being held is called musking. It's a defensive posture that kingsnakes use because they are not comfortable being handled. In time, if he learns to trust you, this will stop. It is not abnormal for your snake to tense up before handling. My snakes are so calm and chill with being handled and they tense up when their enclosure is opened. They are animals that live in a world where pretty much everything is either eatable or could kill them. For starters, birds chow down on reptiles and as a result they do not feel comfortable with things (hands) coming down from above on them. Front opening enclosures are better in this regard, but your snake will eventually get used to it as it gets used to you. With this in mind, when you open up the lid- come down in front of the snake and towards it. Let it sense you, then just grab it. Do not hesitate when it postures and tenses up, because that reinforces it's defensive behavior. I can't stress that aspect enough. A timid handler can make a calm snake feel nervous. Your snake does not need a snake hook, but if you need one it may make grabbing the guy a little easier for you.
One more thing regarding handling- the more comfortable a snake feels in the enclosure the more comfortable it will be out of the enclosure. If you added a little more cover or even empty paper towel holders, it may go a long way. Generally a snake with start getting more confident the larger it grows. In the meantime douse it with security.

[drumcrush]

Wow, gorgeous king! But anyways, yeah she should be bigger than that at a year old.when you up the food size, she should start shedding more which means growth. I would try to feed 2 fuzzies. As far as handling, I wouldn't handle much after feeding. but every couple days or so for maybe 10-15 min is okay. My king is suuuper chill, and doesn't mind being pet on the head. Its really just something developed over time. As she get older, I would definitely expect her to calm down more.

[barbicrash]

Thanks for the tips! I don't know if you can tell from the photo but there are 3 hides. The Buddha head to the far right, the dragon head to the left and then you can't really see it but behind the dragon is this cardboard thing, I don't know what to call it, but she rarely hides in there. She also hides under the bowl and the statue in the middle is hollow and rarely she'll hide in there. Should I redo the layout? She doesn't seem stressed or scared when she slithers around but again this is my first snake so I'm open to any and all suggestions, especially since I really would like to get a couple more in the near future

[drumcrush]

Most snakes like to hide in tight, dark spaces so some snakes will have their "favorite" hide, I know mine does. Kings also like to burrow. You can redo the layout if you want, totally up to you. I've redone my lay outs a lot. Just don't do it to often or your snake can get stressed out.

[EL Ziggy]

You have a beautiful king. Once you start feeding it more I'm sure she'll grow fast.

[barbicrash]

Originally Posted by drumcrush

Most snakes like to hide in tight, dark spaces so some snakes will have their "favorite" hide, I know mine does. Kings also like to burrow. You can redo the layout if you want, totally up to you. I've redone my lay outs a lot. Just don't do it to often or your snake can get stressed out.

Thanks for all the compliments! And oh yeah she definitely has a favorite hide lol. When she's not out and about she is in the large Buddha head 95% of the time. She loves that thing. I think its because its a hide but she can also climb it too.

[CosmicOwl]

Aside from pretty severe underfeeding, snakes don't usually suffer from stunted growth. They will grow slowly or quickly, depending upon how much they're being fed. I don't think it's advisable to feed colubrids much more than 15% of they're body weight, though.

Also, I think snake hooks are good tools if you want to make the snake feel less afraid. I find that picking my snake up and then lowering them into my hand is less frightening to them.

[franks]

Looks nice! If she is out and about and getting comfortable then your setup is working. I love the high white by the way. Good looking king.