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Old 01-21-14, 04:47 AM   #1
loud
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JCP Enclosure/Heating Questions (Pictures Included)

Hi everyone - I tried to post a thread earlier but it doesn't seem to have gone through. I'll post again now that I have more time and (a lot) more details. Apologies if this is a repeat, though!

Anyway, I picked up my first snake this weekend at an expo and thought I was fairly prepared, but now that he's with me I'm worried that I'm doing everything wrong! The breeder has been a wonderful help to me but I'm already beginning to feel bad for all the questions I've been asking him over the last few months. If the members of this forum can share their knowledge and experience with me, I'd greatly appreciate it!

The snake itself is a 5-6 month old Jungle Carpet Python, still fairly small. He's in a pretty cozy tub at the moment and I'll begin working on a larger one in a month or so. Currently the tub set up includes a THG heat tape running across the long side, which also includes some fake vegetation and a hide. On the cool side is a water bowl and a makeshift hide (couldn't fit the other one I bought in there). The heat tape is, of course, connected to a thermostat, and I try to scan the tub with my temperature gun when I can. There are multiple (albeit small) breathing holes on both of the shorter sides and on the long side above the heat tape.

Here's what it looks like:


Anyway, I do have several questions, particularly about the enclosure and heating

- Ambient temperatures vs. floor temperatures/belly heat. I'm getting ambient temperatures of 78 - 82 F on the warm side, but the floor is closer to 88 - 90 F. The warm hide seems to be as it should be, though, with a belly heat of around 90 F and an air temp of ~85 F. Is the ambient temperature much too cold for the snake, and if so, how do I increase the air temperature without overheating the floor?

- Cool side is around 70 F (sometimes as low as 68 F, but I've recently tried wrapping my sweater around that side and it seems to be an improvement). Yikes, too cold, isn't it? I plan on raising the temperature of the room itself, but even then I don't think I can get the cool side up to an ambient temperature of 80 F. Do I need another heat tape for the cool side as well?

- The water goes cold fast! Should I be switching it out twice a day, though? I worry that it'd be stressful for the snake and a little bit overkill. Cold water is okay, I'm guessing?

- The snake itself feels cold to the touch. This probably sounds completely ridiculous, but I'm worried LOL Should snakes feel like that? Not freezing, of course, but think of any regular surface at room temperature. That's what he feels like, and I'd definitely appreciate some confirmation about this being completely normal!

More information about the snake itself
* He appears to make use of everything in the enclosure and doesn't seem to have a preference for the warm or the cool side. I can find him in the cool hide and in the warm hide, or on top of either, or nestled in the fake leaves (where I usually find him in the morning). Or halfway between the leaves and the climb. I'm hoping that means that neither sides are too extreme for him and that he is doing relatively okay with these temperatures.
* He's already pooped once or twice, which I figure is a good sign (although odd, considering he had his meal at the breeder's over 2 weeks ago).
* He fed earlier tonight, great feeding response even though I was a little jumpy (I'll get used to it!!). I chose not to feed him outside of his tub this time because I didn't want him to stress out. He was "on alert" the whole time and afterwards, too, but let me put his hide back in the tub without concern. I guess this can't really be indicative of his comfort level, though, considering that he's a JCP and probably very hungry!

Any help or input would be greatly appreciated! I promise I will make a proper introductory post later and post pictures once I have the seniority/post count to do so. Thanks in advance, and also for reading through my post. Bonus points if you did it without laughing at me, but if you had a laugh that's fine, too

A few pictures of the little guy himself, for anyone interested! Not my best pictures because I was in a hurry and don't have access to my PC (and therefore, my editing programs). Plus I only had the portrait lenses with me... ouch. But he was just too pretty not to snap a few pictures of!






At night - the bedroom's lights make him look really yellow! He's not quite there yet, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
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Old 01-21-14, 06:43 AM   #2
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Re: JCP Enclosure/Heating Questions (Pictures Included)

First the bad news your worrying to much, now the good news your doing everything right.

Your snake fills cold to the touch because your body temp is 98.5 degrees where his is between 80 to 90. So he will always seem a bit cool to the touch. He using the whole cage that's good. You want to see that if he just stayed at one side then you would have to worry if the other side was to extreme. Btw very nice looking Jungle.
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Old 01-21-14, 08:58 AM   #3
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Re: JCP Enclosure/Heating Questions (Pictures Included)

Cool snake!
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Old 01-21-14, 10:22 AM   #4
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Re: JCP Enclosure/Heating Questions (Pictures Included)

May I just ask which breeder you bought him from? That's a nice looking jungle.

When my snakes bask they are definitely not cold to the touch but very warm. Just do 90F hotspot, 80F coolside and you'll be fine. 70F coolspot is a bit cold.If you cant create these conditions with a tub I'd look into a real snake enclosure, or just brumate your carpets for the winter(low temps, no feeding, no handling...etc you can read more on this in The complete carpet python book by Nick Mutton)
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Old 01-21-14, 11:28 AM   #5
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Re: JCP Enclosure/Heating Questions (Pictures Included)

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelfreak View Post
First the bad news your worrying to much, now the good news your doing everything right.

Your snake fills cold to the touch because your body temp is 98.5 degrees where his is between 80 to 90. So he will always seem a bit cool to the touch. He using the whole cage that's good. You want to see that if he just stayed at one side then you would have to worry if the other side was to extreme. Btw very nice looking Jungle.
LOL! You are right, as soon as I read "bad news" I think I began to hyperventilate But if that's the bad news, then that makes me feel pretty good!

And gotcha, and makes sense about him feeling cool to the touch, I'm not sure why I didn't realize that sooner. Sorry for the stupid questions, and thanks so much for answering! I can breath a little easier now! And thank you for the compliment on him!

Also, I really enjoy your photo thread and videos on the photography section - really gorgeous collection! Been lurking around here for a while and I check out that thread frequently!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharthun View Post
Cool snake!
Thanks! I really owe the breeder, he's been great through the whole process and had just a really fantastic selection available. His snakes are just stunning, the parents of this particular baby especially. Can't wait to watch him grow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikoh4792 View Post
May I just ask which breeder you bought him from? That's a nice looking jungle.

When my snakes bask they are definitely not cold to the touch but very warm. Just do 90F hotspot, 80F coolside and you'll be fine. 70F coolspot is a bit cold.If you cant create these conditions with a tub I'd look into a real snake enclosure, or just brumate your carpets for the winter(low temps, no feeding, no handling...etc you can read more on this in The complete carpet python book by Nick Mutton)
He's actually from Nick Mutton Great breeder and has been a saint for putting up with me and my questions/e-mails. I've looked at a few of your photo threads (great photography, by the way!) and I think you own/have owned a few snakes from him? This one is from his 2008 Leary female and her 2011 zebra son. Really looking forward to seeing this baby all grown up.

Do you use/recommend using a lamp for basking? Or is underbelly heat enough? Even when he's in his warm hide (which has ambient temps of around 85 F and a floor temp of around 90 F), I wouldn't describe him as warm to touch. Or... I'm not sure. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong, or he hadn't been in there very long? Because now that I think of it, he seems to prefer being on the leaves or in his cool hide over the warm hide (although he uses the warm hide often as well).

I will look into brumating, thanks! Although I did just realize that if I leave the tub alone (lid closed/clamped), it gets fairly warm in there! It's when I open the lid (replacing the paper towel, changing the water, etc.) that all the hot air escapes and the temperature gets cooler. It's only been a few days and I've been opening/closing the tub fairly frequently, so I'll see how it ends up if I leave it alone for a few days. I'll also raise my room temperature and see if that might just get it to ~80 F.

But I'll also look into a more proper enclosure. This little tub is definitely temporary and I'm hoping to have something more official within the month.
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Old 01-21-14, 12:01 PM   #6
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Re: JCP Enclosure/Heating Questions (Pictures Included)

Quote:
Originally Posted by loud


He's actually from Nick Mutton Great breeder and has been a saint for putting up with me and my questions/e-mails. I've looked at a few of your photo threads (great photography, by the way!) and I think you own/have owned a few snakes from him? This one is from his 2008 Leary female and her 2011 zebra son. Really looking forward to seeing this baby all grown up.

Do you use/recommend using a lamp for basking? Or is underbelly heat enough? Even when he's in his warm hide (which has ambient temps of around 85 F and a floor temp of around 90 F), I wouldn't describe him as warm to touch. Or... I'm not sure. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong, or he hadn't been in there very long? Because now that I think of it, he seems to prefer being on the leaves or in his cool hide over the warm hide (although he uses the warm hide often as well).

I will look into brumating, thanks! Although I did just realize that if I leave the tub alone (lid closed/clamped), it gets fairly warm in there! It's when I open the lid (replacing the paper towel, changing the water, etc.) that all the hot air escapes and the temperature gets cooler. It's only been a few days and I've been opening/closing the tub fairly frequently, so I'll see how it ends up if I leave it alone for a few days. I'll also raise my room temperature and see if that might just get it to ~80 F.

But I'll also look into a more proper enclosure. This little tub is definitely temporary and I'm hoping to have something more official within the month.
Don't be afraid to ask too many questions to your breeder. That's one of the reasons why you pay a higher price. Not only are the animals going to be good quality, but you will get full support after purchase.

Yes I do own a few snakes from him, he has a very nice collection to choose from, it's just hard to stop buying from him ahah.

A lot of people use lamps with success, but it's a fact that lamps will dry out your enclosure faster than any other heat source. I'd look into radiant heat panels when you do buy a bigger enclosure for him.

For now if the heat tape is enough to get your temperatures I wouldn't change anything.
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Old 01-21-14, 12:54 PM   #7
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Re: JCP Enclosure/Heating Questions (Pictures Included)

Your snake does looks quite amazing, cell phone photos or not your pics look much better then mine, I feel kinda bad my photos don't do my snakes justice at all.
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Old 01-22-14, 12:22 AM   #8
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Re: JCP Enclosure/Heating Questions (Pictures Included)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikoh4792 View Post
Don't be afraid to ask too many questions to your breeder. That's one of the reasons why you pay a higher price. Not only are the animals going to be good quality, but you will get full support after purchase.

Yes I do own a few snakes from him, he has a very nice collection to choose from, it's just hard to stop buying from him ahah.

A lot of people use lamps with success, but it's a fact that lamps will dry out your enclosure faster than any other heat source. I'd look into radiant heat panels when you do buy a bigger enclosure for him.

For now if the heat tape is enough to get your temperatures I wouldn't change anything.
That's true, and I have had similar experiences with dog breeders so I knew right off the bat that I wanted to go with a good breeder. Nick has been absolutely fantastic - I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm crazy, but that's okay. I contacted him about a few months back and he's always been great about answering my questions immediately. I'm just starting to feel bad LOL I wonder if breeders hate selling to new snake owners for this very reason?

And thanks, I have heard about radiant heat panels being mentioned a couple of times while browsing old threads. I will definitely look into them for next time - I don't think I'll be keeping this guy in a tub forever. Would love to get him in a nice tank and show him off eventually! For now I'll just monitor the tub/heat tape set up and if by the end of the week it's still closer to 70 F than 80 F on the cool end, I'll get out and buy supplies for a more advanced set up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by revent View Post
Your snake does looks quite amazing, cell phone photos or not your pics look much better then mine, I feel kinda bad my photos don't do my snakes justice at all.
Thanks! Don't worry though, I'm definitely not using my cellphone LOL I got the DSLR out and had my two portrait lenses with me. Might have to buy a macro lens one of these days!
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Old 01-22-14, 12:24 PM   #9
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Re: JCP Enclosure/Heating Questions (Pictures Included)

Great news - I finally made the drive to my own house and turned up the heating first thing. This morning the cool side is already 78 F, warm side 85 F - 92 F I'll continue to adjust if needed, but I think we're going to be okay!
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