Any other hoggie do this?

[chairman]

Lol, you wouldn't want to change the pressure as a keeper. I was trying to suggest that even when "nothing changes," there are external factors that you can't control. The temperature, light cycle, and humidity may remain constant year-round, but we can't do anything about pressure.

Unless you live in an old jumbo jet that has been turned into a house. If so, please share pics.

[Minkness]

Ooooh lol. Sorry, I sometimes take things very litterally. XD

[Albert Clark]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Why should they if a rodent diet is complete nutrition?

I know you're getting some of this information from some papers published so I look forward to reading it, however, I don't see why they SHOULD have a variety other than for their keepers feeling better about offering "different options".



I am a firm believer in the barometric pressure behind breeding cues for snakes.

According to Wikipedia, there is anecdotal evidence to suggest that feeding them( H. platirhinos) a diet of exclusively rodents contributes to liver problems and a shortened life span. https://en.m.wikipedia.org
It further states that H.nasicus (wild populations) will feed predominately on amphibians , tree frogs, toads and small lizards. Also taking the occaisional rodent.
The university of Georgia studies was inclusive of H.platirhinos and H.simus only. They did not include or exclude H.nasicus. Savannah River Ecology Laboratory/ UGA/reprint #1801

[Andy_G]

So they mentioned that H. platirhinos had problens with fatty liver disease when fed mice exclusively...which is nothing new and why the species is less common in the trade...but when it comes to H. nasicus...which is what we are talking about here...it doesn't supply any evidence of this whatsoever. What about populations that exist in arid or dry areas where the amphibian population is low? They must do fine on mostly rodents in the wild as we know H. nasicus is extremely widespread and very adaptable compared to the other subspecies mentioned...what you have offered is in my opinion a bit skewed, restrictive in regards to geographical range and offers no conclusive proof of your earlier claim that western hognose snakes being offered a varied diet in captivity will in any way be healthier. Just my thoughts...

[Albert Clark]

The populations that reside in arid or dry regions where the amphibian population is low probably feed on lizards and or toads. What I offered is what I researched. Hognose in general don't feed on one prey item. If that's what works for you that's ok. If that's what works for your captives , that's fine too.

[Andy_G]

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

The populations that reside in arid or dry regions where the amphibian population is low probably feed on lizards and or toads. What I offered is what I researched. Hognose in general don't feed on one prey item. If that's what works for you that's ok. If that's what works for your captives , that's fine too.

Since the whole purpose of your posts in this thread was mainly to educate us that western hognose in captivity don't do well on rodents exclusively because that isn't what their natural diet consists of...I must ask...do you feed your bp african soft fur rats just as they would eat in the wild as a main staple?

If one has no experience keeping a specific species, are they properly suited to give advice when the main source of the information is the combination of a small study and wikipedia? Im sorry to sound harsh but it bugs me when someone offers up advice that could be dentrimental to the keeping of the species as well as causing unnecessary problems for the owner, even if unintentional.

[RAD House]

Originally Posted by Andy_G

Since the whole purpose of your posts in this thread was mainly to educate us that western hognose in captivity don't do well on rodents exclusively because that isn't what their natural diet consists of...I must ask...do you feed your bp african soft fur rats just as they would eat in the wild as a main staple?

If one has no experience keeping a specific species, are they properly suited to give advice when the main source of the information is the combination of a small study and wikipedia? Im sorry to sound harsh but it bugs me when someone offers up advice that could be dentrimental to the keeping of the species as well as causing unnecessary problems for the owner, even if unintentional.

I don't think your AFS example is relevant as I don't think anyone will argue that rats and mice are far more similar to AFS than mice are to lizards and toads. I think Albert has a point about natural diets, but the question is it entirely necessary or achievable in most cases? Probably not and this seems to do well for many in captivity. I went through the same issues with my garter snakes, luckily they seem to make the choice for me.

[Andy_G]

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

I don't think your AFS example is relevant as I don't think anyone will argue that rats and mice are far more similar to AFS than mice are to lizards and toads. I think Albert has a point about natural diets, but the question is it entirely necessary or achievable in most cases? Probably not and this seems to do well for many in captivity. I went through the same issues with my garter snakes, luckily they seem to make the choice for me.

You're right, asf's are much more comparable to what is normally offered, although not one in the same. Fatty liver disease gets brought up all the time (on forums) and asfs have differren fat content than the feeder rats we regularly offer so how irrelevant is it in regards to this wild vs captive diet discussion? If irrelevant, perhaps equally so, I would argue when taking into account that the foodvitems discussed will offer mostly problems for keeper and captive.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

According to Wikipedia, there is anecdotal evidence to suggest that feeding them( H. platirhinos) a diet of exclusively rodents contributes to liver problems and a shortened life span. https://en.m.wikipedia.org
It further states that H.nasicus (wild populations) will feed predominately on amphibians , tree frogs, toads and small lizards. Also taking the occaisional rodent.
The university of Georgia studies was inclusive of H.platirhinos and H.simus only. They did not include or exclude H.nasicus. Savannah River Ecology Laboratory/ UGA/reprint #1801

I restate my question, why is it a SHOULD for a varied diet as opposed to "up to the keeper's discretion?" For commonly kept species in captivity.

I see one instance of fatty liver for 1 specific species. It doesn't allow us to brush everything with a broad stroke.

[Albert Clark]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I restate my question, why is it a SHOULD for a varied diet as opposed to "up to the keeper's discretion?" For commonly kept species in captivity.

I see one instance of fatty liver for 1 specific species. It doesn't allow us to brush everything with a broad stroke.

It certainly can be up to the keepers discretion! A varied diet is what's shown in all descriptions under "feeding" and "diet" categories for all reptiles. Very few to none of animals only feed on only one single prey item. "Complete nutrition" is in a rodent based diet. However variety is the spice of life. It can't hurt to offer variety of a animals natural diet if possible. Percentages of nutritional values are different as well. If it's refused by the animal it's all good. If they accept it , then great! For me , it's worth trying. People are welcome to reject it all together if they so desire. Thanks.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

It certainly can be up to the keepers discretion! A varied diet is what's shown in all descriptions under "feeding" and "diet" categories for all reptiles. Very few to none of animals only feed on only one single prey item. "Complete nutrition" is in a rodent based diet. However variety is the spice of life. It can't hurt to offer variety of a animals natural diet if possible. Percentages of nutritional values are different as well. If it's refused by the animal it's all good. If they accept it , then great! For me , it's worth trying. People are welcome to reject it all together if they so desire. Thanks.

Thank you for explaining.

That was what I was getting at. I knew that it isn't a "SHOULD" be when it comes to variety and I wanted others reading the thread who may be new that this isn't the case. It's much easier for a lot of new keepers and even older ones to stick with the complete nutrition diet of rodents.

I personally err on the side of "rodents only" because variety can get you stuck with a lot picky snakes in certain species.

[Oleman]

I like where this went.
My hog has done this from year one. She eats again in April usually barely looses any weight. It's normal for her with same environmental factors. It's funny, she is in a basement so she doesn't see any sunlight yet with her light on a 14 hour on 10 hr off cycle, she begins to get active mid march then by April is back to her self.

[Oleman]

Update.
The female has returned to normal feeding behaviors.
she returned to eating on the 6th after she shed the last week of march.