Please need advice regarding how long one can handle BRB's

[floatindownslig]

I am new to this site, and somewhat new to the reptile world, and have experience with Ball Pythons on and off since I was young and have always loved snakes ( I even got lucky enough for both of the times I got bit by a rattlesnake [both medium adults] gave me almost completely dry bites and didn't hurt at all at any point- both times I literally ran right over them as I am a long distance runner and so definitely had it coming and am just glad I didn't hurt either snake as I've been rescuing all the snakes on the road I have found since my mother showed me when I was young) and am trying to decide to either adopt a Ball Python or a Rainbow Boa baby (less than a month old in either case.

I've lived with several Ball Pythons and almost every one- if it wasn't cold in the house, would cuddle with them and read with them watching over my shoulder! I love snakes so very much. So in that regard, if any question of mine is a no-brainer for the learned and aged reptile owner/breeder, I hope everyone knows that I am only trying to look to provide the best possible environment for my snake, since I will be getting either snake when they are less than a month old to be able to form a stronger bond.

Since I personally know from experience, that ball pythons not only can be handled almost all the time (OBVIOUSLY EXCEPT 1-3 DAYS AFTER FEEDING OR OBV IF THEY GIVE ANY SIGNS OF WANTING TO BE ALONE. I AM A HERMIT, SO I CAN COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THEM; ONE OF THE MANY REASONS I LOVE SNAKES SO VERY MUCH. JUST TO CLARIFY.) but definitely enjoy it when they have a lot of social interaction. This OF COURSE CHANGES FROM SNAKE TO SNAKE just like personalities of any living creature.


I was REALLY hoping for anybody who has had FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE with BRB's to let me know how long it would be safe for the snake to be out of his/her cage without having to worry about it developing any health problems from lack of humidity from being handled outside the enclosure. The enclosure will be perfect for keeping in humidity, will be freezing cypress or aspen mulch and then letting sit out until thawed and warm, as I heard that is a good way to prevent mites being introduced to their enclosure and thus the snake via their bedding or whatever the case may be.

So, PLEASE, TO ALL THOSE READING THIS WHO HAVE A BRB I couldn't tell you how much of a help and reassurance it would be for me, because I WILL NEVER and have never adopted or bought an animal if I didn't have enough money for food, daily clean water, shelter, and now for the snake I await: a generator in the very rare case the power goes out, and have a very clean house.


If it seems as though BRB's would not be the best fit, please explain to me with at least a modicum of detail. I can't thank anybody who is still reading this enough! Truly, thank you! I hope very much to hear from someone soon!

Wishing everybody the best and hope that all is well!
Thank you!

[Snakesitter]

Float, rainbows are fine with being out of their humid enclosures for a while. Even a few hours will not impact their health. Temps are more dangerous: remember to avoid anything the mid-80s or higher for too long.

The trick is that rainbows, unlike balls, are very curious and active, and often on the move. You can fall asleep in front of the TV with a ball and it would still be there when you woke up. With rainbows, not so much. They are fine with handling, but don't expect one to just camp out with you for hours.

In short: wonderful pets, but not pet rocks.

[floatindownslig]

Thank you very much for your reply; that information was quite helpful! It does indeed look like I will be adopting a Ball Python, as I have been used to doing exactly as you described- falling asleep/nodding on the couch- while the ball pythons would just still be wrapped around the back of my neck/shoulders.
I plan on breeding Rainbows in a year or so after I have much more knowledge and hands on experience, and only plan on having 10-12 adults at the most, so that will probably be perfect in regards to being able to interact with such beautiful creatures everyday- at least for a little while every time.

Thank you again; I wish you the very best and hope that all is well!

[Snakesitter]

You are very welcome.

Make sure you *really* want to breed this species before trying it; it is much harder than most people realize.

Other than that caution, good luck!

[floatindownslig]

Thank you so very much for your advice; I will definitely take it into consideration. I'm not planning on breeding Ball Pythons as the market is too flooded with them already; and there are already many of thousands waiting for good homes. I will be devoting an entire floor upstairs for breeding them, and for whichever kind of snakes I will eventually find myself breeding, I plan to only start off with purchasing a a pair of adults- either from a guaranteed breeder so they aren't as interbred with another, or two sexes from separate sellers.

And as I was saying in my previous post, whichever species of constrictors I set my heart and mind on, I will only have at most 10-12 adults. I am not sure yet personally what the best ratio of males to females to have (obv all of whom will be living individually in their enclosures) that would make breeding most successful.

But either way, my main point was going to be that for 10-12 snakes having an over 800 sq ft space to build very large enclosures, and set up basic automated humidifying machines where each cage is individually fed a line to prevent any possible cross contamination if one snake falls ill or develops mites/etc.

I've actually been cultivating over 30 different species of fungi the last 8 years or so, and hunting and studying their migration and environmental factors for fruiting, and have not only built over half a dozen laboratories where I'd build my own HEPA filter intake and exhaust filters, as well as building my own flow hoods, etc. etc. And have renovated my own house extensively and several others I have previously lived in.
I am a very meticulous person when it comes to the things I love, and clean to an almost OCD like level, which I, nor any of my ex ladyfriends have complained about, haha.
I have a breaker box switch attached to a full and brand new generator in case of any power outages; I work at home so they will have my eyes on them several times a day and plan to keep a detailed journal about feeding, general wellbeing, any problems, etc.
and have plenty of money to keep them all happy regardless if my breeding attempts are for whatever reason- a failure, so I would just learn over time and continue to nudge these creatures on the right track.

I'm very intrigued with breeding snakes that give live birth rather than eggs. I would imagine those that give live birth are much more prone to medical problems developing during pregnancy also though.

@SnakeSitter: I just took a gander at your website, and wow! I very much admire your set up and what truly beautiful snakes you've been breeding. Very inspirational!

Another kind of python I have been interested in have been Diamond Pythons, and would have outdoor enclosures for them as I also have a decently large property, certainly large enough to house a few. But I am very much aware how difficult they are for even experienced breeders, so for now that is just a future goal after having cared for and bred other kinds of snakes, as I will never adopt an animal without both knowing how to take care of it and provide it everything it needs, as well as extra money so I never have to actually depend on these lovely creatures as a source of income which if that was the case could potentially have me doing things for the wrong reasons, things which wouldn't necessarily be the best for the snake. Especially things like overfeeding younger snakes to get them up to wait. I've always had a problem with being impatient; breeding snakes will most certainly help me on that journey :P.

Thank you again, and hope that all is well!

[dross9615]

just gonna throw in my two since and say i think you should consider red tail boas. wonderful snakes to own and care for. they tend to be very relaxed as well and with so many morph (with actual diversity). IMO ball python morphs tend to all look the same. With red tails theres a huge array of beautiful animals to look into

[dross9615]

Originally Posted by dross9615

just gonna throw in my two since and say i think you should consider red tail boas. wonderful snakes to own and care for. they tend to be very relaxed as well and with so many morph (with actual diversity). IMO ball python morphs tend to all look the same. With red tails theres a huge array of beautiful animals to look into

I meant to say two cents. Just noticed this.

[floatindownslig]

Thank you; I have honestly been considering and researching the specifics of enclosures/settings/size/food scheduling and food size/etc. for a good while now. I have already read a college textbook specifically on snake anatomy/biology/ecology on top of a small breeders book and have been in contact with some small breeders.

I plan on visiting at least a couple more large scale breeders before I start to purchase adults (of whatever variety I do choose), and make sure I have all the enclosures built perfectly, all timers set, all thermometers and hygrometers checked on for accuracy, a breaker switch that turns on a full, brand new generator if the power ever goes out (has gone out twice for less than 2 hours since I bought my house 9 months ago), and I am friends with several veterinarians and there is a very large animal hospital near me with the best doctors I've met (dealing with issues that my parent's dogs have had), and could get help even if for whatever reason I lost all of my money or the surgery or treatment would be something amazingly expensive.
I'm a bit OCD about getting everything in place first, most especially when it is in preparation for my favorite kind of animals (snakes).

I have definitely looked into red tail boas quite a bit @DROSS9615, and I most certainly agree that the morphs in red tail boas and related boa species/subspecies most definitely can bring out a TON MORE reds, oranges, and from what I've seen so far in my opinion and experience (which I am admitting is very limited) most definitely has a larger accessible and ready genome base; or at least that is what it seems like. If anybody can comment on that if that can be at all verified or tell me I am full of poppycock that would be appreciated.

@Dross9615
From a lot of videos of red tail boas, as well as some reading I've done on them, it seems that as adults (starting even after 1-2 years old) their girth gets extremely large; quite similar to the look of a green andaconda (in regards to girth and body morphia). NOW I PERSONALLY COULDN'T CARE LESS, AT ALL. But, although I am certainly going to be breeding snakes for profits last, I am trying to find niche species, and as well as working on breeding morphs, at the same time I hope to positively change (ie in the case of Rainbow boas which I know are sometimes nippy when young) their genome, as domesticating animals around loving humans that never present any intentional threats for their entire lives, for many generations downwards, will very very very slowly start to literally change the make-up of their DNA.
I have an AS, and have been going to college on and off since i was 15 (24 now) and will be majoring in fields like chemical ecology of living organisms, mycology, specialized biology, and I can speak several languages. I've successfully mutated a species of everyday, common fungi, using UV manipulation and over 100 petri dish transfers (and a few months of my time) to make it not only able to digest plastic polymers, but then breaks them down into tiny compounds the surrounding ecology absolutely would love.
Our environment (external and internal) is the ONLY THING THAT CHANGES GENOMIC INFORMATION BESIDES MUTATIONS AND/OR VIRUS'. We are most effected by our external environment disregarding any aforementioned genomic mutations/abnormalities. We literally get information from our external environment, and whatever information the/a protein can carry, it then carries it to locations in the cell where it can readily access and change DNA.
The notion that all evolution was the result of mutations is a joke told to people not majoring in scientific fields. This was long established decades ago; I only say this to tell others that there is no doubt that over time, through domestication by LOVING, ATTENTIVE, and DEDICATED breeders, that over many generations that fearful behavior will VERY SLOWLY become less and less (specifically around humans).

I know many breeders have talked about this (certain genes provoke certain behaviors) on video or most likely there are many forums on this topic (I joined to ask that one specific question at first; and don't get to the computer much at the current time), but from at least what I have read and heard, when they give this information about how genes can alter behavior, there is either no discussion on the matter, or the breeders say they do not know what causes it.

If this is known already I apologize to any readers, and hope I do not look like a buffoon.

@Dross9615
I was wondering how long you have taken care of and/or bred red tails? I suppose the question that has always been weighing on my mind about them is if it is common for at least males to at least have a similar girth to a royal/ball python by way of spreading out their feedings?

Have you adopted or bred any other kind of constrictors?

I have grown up around family friends who were state certified for housing and helping recuperate and/or breed really what seemed to be a great menagerie infinitely better than zoos.

I am 100 percent for domestic captive breeding of any and all species that are endangered or in risk of becoming so. BUT ONLY IN THE BEST OF CONDITIONS. I've been to some zoo's in CA that have made me cry as to how poorly the animals were taken care of, ie penguins out in 105 degree weather (but it's okay; they have a chilled pool... yeah right).

ramble ramble...

But I would like to thank you @Dross9615 for your suggestions. Honestly the more input about different species from those who at least have a good deal of knowledge on the matter, is wonderful for helping to further my understandings. As I am not afraid to say I know very little despite having spent months passionately researching them and having taken care of around half a dozen when living with old roommates in the past.

I definitely agree that many Ball Python morphs look very similar in comparison to species like red tails and some colubrids, but I certainly do have many fond memories of sitting by fireplaces in rocking chairs (like I currently have set up in my house, and also, to top off everything, I am also getting a GIANT furnace installed under my house and brought into the house via many vents, to further guarantee a balanced temperature... I've spent thousands in preparation just to know I will be able to take care of ONE BALL PYTHON for my pet.... so I am both patient and adamant to take care of my future snake.

I was honestly looking at red tails for a long time instead of ball pythons because of the immense variations, and honestly want to adopt one or breed them in the future as well, but it was the thickness/girth of them and also how much faster they tack on weight compared to Ball Pythons- in general, obviously there are many exceptions. I would just want to make sure that the first pet snake I have when it is older be able to fully wrap itself multiple times to anchor itself around me if I am outside hiking.

I am currently looking for a Black Pastel Ball Python 2-3 weeks of age (and/or after its first shed and feeding) from a smaller breeder in California, and have found several breeders with clutches coming up of that genetic morph. I personally love the extreme and clean black with little to no fade marks when it changes to the usually yellowish orange patterns which are also abnormal (although not nearly as much as super pastels, or the albinos lacking any patterns).


THE ONLY THING I HOPE NOT TO SEE HAPPEN FOR ANY ANIMAL SPECIES BRED IN DOMESTIC SETTINGS, IS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SPECIES OF CANINES (SPECIFICALLY THE FAMILIARIS SPECIES [ONLY OTHER SPECIES THE LUPUS FAMILIARIS INCLUDES LARGE AMOUNT OF WOLF OR OTHER UNKNOWN ANCIENT CANINE GENES] DURING THE LATE 1800'S TO EARLY 1900'S IN BRITAIN DURING THE IMMENSELY POPULAR EUGENICS MOVEMENT.... AROUND 90 PERCENT OF ALL BREEDS TODAY WERE BRED LESS THAN 130 YEARS AGO. A LARGE MAJORITY OF PURE BREEDS ARE JUST SIMPLY UNHEALTHY, AND UNFAIR FOR THE ANIMAL. WORKING BREEDS ARE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STORY AND THERE ARE NO WORKING BREEDS WHICH ARE PREDISPOSED TO SOME VERY HORRIBLE ARRAY OF AILMENTS. I AM SURE MOST PEOPLE HAVE HEARD HORROR STORIES FROM FRIENDS... I'VE VOLUNTEERED AT SHELTERS AND IT IS HEARTBREAKING FOR MYSELF PERSONALLY.

HOWEVER with SNAKES and the majority of reptiles and insects... and to a degree some amphibians and frogs.... have a much simpler anatomy and bone and organ arrangement, so that any breeding done would be immensely hard to produce snakes with predisoposed ailments to the degree that some breeds of dogs have to deal with their whole lives... poor things. I consider it animal cruelty* at some point when it is done with premeditated intent and/or participation, especially when it is just for profit. I don't support anybody who breeds or adopts pets just for the money, unless they make damned sure that every animal they are taking care of is in as good as health as themselves. They are the people who have given those like us bad names (just like every category and field in life it seems...)

I have also kept a few wild caught rubber boas in large terrariums as a child ( my mother likes snakes, has handled several wild rattlesnakes with tools to move them off the road or unfortunately in some cases to kill it if it is was too close to my dog pen of 5 dogs and several cats) and I still love rubber boas A TON. I wouldn't consider them the best pets for me personally as far as their size... a little too small for me, but I am definitely planning on breeding them in the future.

Thank you so much for bringing that up, and is greatly appreciated.
I hope that all is well with you and darnit; you have me staring at red tail boas again drooling over their beauty! :P
Wishing everyone the very best!

[floatindownslig]

Sorry for the long messages; It is nearly impossible for me to keep my responses to the majority of questions in any field short and sweet; although I agree to some degree with Bill Shakespeare on his mention of brevity and wit, I more so just like everyone to be wild and free and to only have the CONTENT speak for its value. I also work from home on the computer and my fingers move faster than the thoughts in my head a good deal of the time.

I truly appreciate everyone's comments and input. Very helpful. Can thank you all enough.

[Snakesitter]

Some excellent answers on your part, Floatindownslig. I admire your thoroughness.