Morph/species related illness?

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by DDW

Wow... Very sad, seems like the more recessive genes are brought out to get "cool" looking animals, the bad stuff is enhanced, very similar to the effects of inbreeding in other animals it seems. Makes the gene pool so shallow :/ There is a reason some traits are recessive. (Btw, what is duckbilling?)

It's a mouth deformity

[DDW]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

It's a mouth deformity

Oh, okay thx

[yeloowtang]

here's a list hard to find of known issues..

Spider Wobble
Woma Wobble
Hidden Gene Woma Wobble
Champagne Wobble
Super Sable Wobble
Powerball Wobble
Sable x Spider Difficult to hatch, severe wobble
Champagne x Hidden Gene Woma Severe wobble
Champagne x Spider Lethal
Pearl Normally Lethal
Super Champagne Lethal
Desert Female fertility issues
Caramel Albino Kinking and female sub-fertility
Super Cinnamon/Super Black Pastel Duckbill & rare kinking
Super Lesser Platinum/Super Butter Bug eyes
Lesser Platinum x Piedbald Small Eyes
Banana/Coral Glow Males produce weird sex ratios
Homozygous Spider Mysteriously non-existent

[DDW]

Originally Posted by yeloowtang

here's a list hard to find of known issues..

Spider Wobble
Woma Wobble
Hidden Gene Woma Wobble
Champagne Wobble
Super Sable Wobble
Powerball Wobble
Sable x Spider Difficult to hatch, severe wobble
Champagne x Hidden Gene Woma Severe wobble
Champagne x Spider Lethal
Pearl Normally Lethal
Super Champagne Lethal
Desert Female fertility issues
Caramel Albino Kinking and female sub-fertility
Super Cinnamon/Super Black Pastel Duckbill & rare kinking
Super Lesser Platinum/Super Butter Bug eyes
Lesser Platinum x Piedbald Small Eyes
Banana/Coral Glow Males produce weird sex ratios
Homozygous Spider Mysteriously non-existent

Wow that's a lot! Thanks for the list.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by yeloowtang

here's a list hard to find of known issues..

Spider Wobble
Woma Wobble
Hidden Gene Woma Wobble
Champagne Wobble
Super Sable Wobble
Powerball Wobble
Sable x Spider Difficult to hatch, severe wobble
Champagne x Hidden Gene Woma Severe wobble
Champagne x Spider Lethal
Pearl Normally Lethal
Super Champagne Lethal
Desert Female fertility issues
Caramel Albino Kinking and female sub-fertility
Super Cinnamon/Super Black Pastel Duckbill & rare kinking
Super Lesser Platinum/Super Butter Bug eyes
Lesser Platinum x Piedbald Small Eyes
Banana/Coral Glow Males produce weird sex ratios
Homozygous Spider Mysteriously non-existent

Super spider is lethal I believe.
Some pieds have egg quality issues. Especially if they're not cross bred

[DDW]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

Super spider is lethal I believe.
Some pieds have egg quality issues. Especially if they're not cross bred

Hmm, interesting
makes me glad I don't plan to breed anything :/

[DDW]

@lady_bug87 btw, I love your profile pic lol

[yeloowtang]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

Super spider is lethal I believe.
Some pieds have egg quality issues. Especially if they're not cross bred

I believe you are corect..

I've only read of one possible case about a super spider, was a completly white snake that didn't survive long.. it's believed to a fluke of luck that one made it out of the egg..only one ever know to exist.
some say that the bad eggs are a result of the super spiders not making it in egg development... but that was something i read a while ago.. maybe more info is out there by now..

same with the desert gene, females are all infertile or they get egg bound and/or die laying slugs.. one person said he had succeded in breeding a female but never came forth with any proof about it..
other believe that because the male can breed it's ok to do so !!!! problem here is that all the babies that result from that breeding, the females are all in the same boat.. they can all die if the unknowing buyer breeds her.. no matter if it's a pastel desert, mojave desert, pied desert etc etc ,, if it has the desert gene the snake is at risk.. it's a fatal gene..

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

It depends on how severe it is. It can cause the snake to not be able to eat on it's own.

Never have I seen this. Do you have a source for this? I currently own the spider morph and have produced them. I have never seen the wobble negatively effect the quality of life of a ball python.

Originally Posted by yeloowtang

here's a list hard to find of known issues..

Spider Wobble
Woma Wobble
Hidden Gene Woma Wobble
Champagne Wobble
Super Sable Wobble
Powerball Wobble
Sable x Spider Difficult to hatch, severe wobble
Champagne x Hidden Gene Woma Severe wobble
Champagne x Spider Lethal
Pearl Normally Lethal
Super Champagne Lethal
Desert Female fertility issues
Caramel Albino Kinking and female sub-fertility
Super Cinnamon/Super Black Pastel Duckbill & rare kinking
Super Lesser Platinum/Super Butter Bug eyes
Lesser Platinum x Piedbald Small Eyes
Banana/Coral Glow Males produce weird sex ratios
Homozygous Spider Mysteriously non-existent

I bolded the ones I want to point out for sure.

1. I have seen many champ and champ crosses. Never seen one wobble as of yet. Where did you hear of this?

2. Super champ has been proven three times. I know of at least one that's thriving.

3. Lots of people have caramels producing. I wouldn't say it's "sub fertility".

4. The pinstripe also doesn't have a homozygous form that we know of. We do know the spider has a "lethal" one.

I would point that for those reading that these are the known issues associated with the morphs. They come part and parcel with the morph and doesn't mean everyone comes out like this. I know Yellowtang that you didn't mean that they do as you comprised just a list of known issues. It's pretty detailed so thanks.

[SSSSnakes]

[QUOTE=Aaron_S;964669]Never have I seen this. Do you have a source for this? I currently own the spider morph and have produced them. I have never seen the wobble negatively effect the quality of life of a ball python.

My source is me. Where I work I have had to assisted feed some spiders that had sever head wobble, to the point that they could not control the head and neck to eat. It has happened many times.

[lady_bug87]

[QUOTE=SSSSnakes;964722]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Never have I seen this. Do you have a source for this? I currently own the spider morph and have produced them. I have never seen the wobble negatively effect the quality of life of a ball python.

My source is me. Where I work I have had to assisted feed some spiders that had sever head wobble, to the point that they could not control the head and neck to eat. It has happened many times.

Of course it is. Don't worry the next paragraph isnt for you. It's for general information. Saying that, if your spiders are thusly affected maybe you should (ethically) stop making them.

In MY opinion. The problems associated with wobbles and such get worse when you're not cross breeding. The wobble will always be there but if you aren't adding any new blood its going to get worse. It's all about genetic variability. Really bad wobbles and things like pied infertility (desert is completely different) can 'be alleviated by adding to the "gene pool"

[Aaron_S]

[QUOTE=lady_bug87;964743]

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

Of course it is. Don't worry the next paragraph isnt for you. It's for general information. Saying that, if your spiders are thusly affected maybe you should (ethically) stop making them.

In MY opinion. The problems associated with wobbles and such get worse when you're not cross breeding. The wobble will always be there but if you aren't adding any new blood its going to get worse. It's all about genetic variability. Really bad wobbles and things like pied infertility (desert is completely different) can 'be alleviated by adding to the "gene pool"

Actually a very good point.

As everyone selectively breeds for blushing, darker blacks, lighter colours, less or more pattern we also inadverently breed the "bad" stuff. Polygenetics at work both good and bad genes.

This is a side note, we can't breed these defects out. They come with whatever conditions make the neat colours and patterns. We can just try to mitigate them a bit.

[Aaron_S]

[QUOTE=SSSSnakes;964722]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Never have I seen this. Do you have a source for this? I currently own the spider morph and have produced them. I have never seen the wobble negatively effect the quality of life of a ball python.

My source is me. Where I work I have had to assisted feed some spiders that had sever head wobble, to the point that they could not control the head and neck to eat. It has happened many times.

If you have pics or videos I'd like to see them. How many snakes in total? How large of a group did they come from?

I've seen hundreds of spiders and haven't seen this issue or ever asked about it by someone. I have a very wobbly one here and she does just fine with similar "control" issues.

[SSSSnakes]

[QUOTE=Aaron_S;964745]

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

If you have pics or videos I'd like to see them. How many snakes in total? How large of a group did they come from?

I've seen hundreds of spiders and haven't seen this issue or ever asked about it by someone. I have a very wobbly one here and she does just fine with similar "control" issues.

These snakes that I have dealt with come from my job, were they buy and sell snakes from all different breeders. I personally do not like ball pythons of any kind and I am not a breeder of them. I don't have time to take pictures or videos of snakes I have no interest in. We also have not had any of these snake in a few years.