Snakes ARE affectionate

[eminart]

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

Eminart no has specifically studied love in snakes as our understanding of their brains is not even close to being developed to that point. We are now just beginning to understand love in the biological sense in humans. She is stating her opinion. Can you find a peer reviewed paper supporting that snakes have no ability to love? The answer is no don't bother looking.

I can't find a peer-reviewed article stating that dogs can't learn algebra either. Wonder why that is?

Also, have you ever heard of "burden of proof"? I'll summarize. If you make a positive claim (i.e. snakes love) then the burden is on you to prove that. Now, if you knew anything about debate, you'd counter by saying I'm making a positive claim that I know snakes do not love. But, you'd be failing to acknowledge that I'm simply following what all the evidence points toward, and the consensus of all scientific thought on the matter to this point.

[sophiedufort]

Originally Posted by eminart

Also, have you ever heard of "burden of proof"? I'll summarize. If you make a positive claim (i.e. snakes love) then the burden is on you to prove that. Now, if you knew anything about debate, you'd counter by saying I'm making a positive claim that I know snakes do not love. But, you'd be failing to acknowledge that I'm simply following what all the evidence points toward, and the consensus of all scientific thought on the matter to this point.

Let me ask this, please: what type of evidence is suitable for you? I am curious, mainly because I started this thread as a result of consistent snake behavior that I believe to be affectionate. I didn't start this thread just for the sake of the topic. My snakes, whom I handle daily, display signs of affection, and that's a fact. Also called evidence. I am not going to relist all the examples I provided in earlier posts. Only one of them, that is quite compelling. Missy, my Dumeril's boa, will not leave me or my husband. She loves kisses on the side of the head, and comes back for more, poking at my lips. She 'massages' my neck (I am sure you all know what I'm talking about) ONLY when I have migraines. Each and every time. She will only stop if I move her away. She will not do the massage when I feel well. Primitive or not, snakes' displays of affection are there. Not everybody notices or recognizes them. Some people have dozens of snakes throughout their life, and they just go through a care routine, day in, day out, without learning anything new from it, but still thinking that they know just about everything about snakes.
So, getting back to my question In what way the factual description of my snakes' behavior fails to constitute suitable evidence that snakes can show affection? Is it because I am not a scientist? I just don't get it.

[eminart]

Originally Posted by sophiedufort

Let me ask this, please: what type of evidence is suitable for you? I am curious, mainly because I started this thread as a result of consistent snake behavior that I believe to be affectionate. I didn't start this thread just for the sake of the topic. My snakes, whom I handle daily, display signs of affection, and that's a fact. Also called evidence. I am not going to relist all the examples I provided in earlier posts. Only one of them, that is quite compelling. Missy, my Dumeril's boa, will not leave me or my husband. She loves kisses on the side of the head, and comes back for more, poking at my lips. She 'massages' my neck (I am sure you all know what I'm talking about) ONLY when I have migraines. Each and every time. She will only stop if I move her away. She will not do the massage when I feel well. Primitive or not, snakes' displays of affection are there. Not everybody notices or recognizes them. Some people have dozens of snakes throughout their life, and they just go through a care routine, day in, day out, without learning anything new from it, but still thinking that they know just about everything about snakes.
So, getting back to my question In what way the factual description of my snakes' behavior fails to constitute suitable evidence that snakes can show affection? Is it because I am not a scientist? I just don't get it.

In short, I reject every bit of this as evidence. Because it isn't evidence. Your personal experiences do not equal science. All of those behaviors can be explained in ways that do not involve love and affection.

Science doesn't only set out to confirm a set of beliefs, it also conducts experiments to eliminate all other answers.

What would convince me is scientific evidence. Actual studies. Scientists rationally conducting experiments without the taint of their own emotion and wishes.

And again, WHY would a snake have evolved emotional affection? There is ZERO reason to believe that reptiles love. Personal experience is not evidence. There are people who sincerely believe, and will tell you, while in tears, that they were abducted by aliens and anally probed.

[sophiedufort]

Originally Posted by eminart

Personal experience is not evidence. There are people who sincerely believe, and will tell you, while in tears, that they were abducted by aliens and anally probed.

I think that your example brushes too much on extremes, and it does not bring justice to your comments.

[eminart]

Originally Posted by sophiedufort

I think that your example brushes too much on extremes, and it does not bring justice to your comments.

You just finished making the claim that your snake massages your neck when you have a migraine.

[sophiedufort]

Originally Posted by eminart

You just finished making the claim that your snake massages your neck when you have a migraine.

Yes, I did. And this is correct. Far from your 'anal probe' example.
Just because you never experienced something like the 'massage' I am talking about doesn't make it irrational or farfetched.
Please note that I did not insinuate that you're crazy, even though I disagree with you.

[eminart]

Originally Posted by sophiedufort

Yes, I did. And this is correct. Far from your 'anal probe' example.
Just because you never experienced something like the 'massage' I am talking about doesn't make it irrational or farfetched.
Please note that I did not insinuate that you're crazy, even though I disagree with you.

Let me put it this way. You're not The Snake Whisperer. Everyone here has experienced the same behaviors in our reptiles. Many of us, like myself, have kept, literally, hundreds, some even thousands through the years. Yet, we attribute these behaviors to other factors. What do you think you've seen that we haven't? Judging by your first post, you seem to believe that you have some talent of reading these behaviors "the correct" way, while the rest of us are misinterpreting them as something else. Our view is that the behaviors are attributed to factors that would make sense to a snake as we understand them. Your view is that you know differently, and that snakes actually possess emotions that would not make any sense to have evolved in a reptile. What makes your more extraordinary view right, other than your personal experience?