Snakes ARE affectionate

[EL Ziggy]

I love my snakes but I don't believe they love me back and that's ok. I'm just the source of their food, water, shelter and warmth. Because I provide these things we have established a bond of tolerance and trust. I love their beauty and mystique and try to give them the best possible care but I know if it were up to them they would have nothing to do with me and I'm ok with that too .

[eminart]

And to the original poster, it's great that you love snakes. If the worst thing about you is that you think they love you back, I think you're OK.

Personally, I'm fine with the fact that the majority of my pets would eat me if I were small enough. I still love keeping them.

[millertime89]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I'm watching this thread closely!

Same here...

[reptiledude987]

Originally Posted by millertime89

Same here...

So am I and laughing my a$$ off the whole way through.

I think one of the most relevant posts on the thread was in refrence to the old addage "if you love it set it free. If it comes back then it loves you too." Which is not at all advisable but would prove the point.

I'm quite sure you wouldnt be willing to put this to the test because 99.9% of the time you would never see the animal again.

Further to the point there are animals that rear their young and mate for life ie. penguins. snakes do neither of these things which in its self should tell you right there the emotional attachment theyre capable of.

If they dont have an emotional connection with their offspring how would they have an emotional connection with you. If someone paid my rent Id appriceate it but wouldnt grieve their loss tha same way I would if I lost one of my children.

[RAD House]

I don't think there is any question that was exactly what I was doing lady bug.

Eminart words like emotions and love can not be applied directly to snakes in any way because they are made to describe the way we interpret our own brain chemistry. A snake can experience the same brain chemistry as us but can it interpret that as love or not love? The answer is no and so saying a snake feels or doesn't feel love is giving it human characteristics as only we understand what love is. What we can do is study the chemistry that occurs in the brain and what that means to humans. To be fair given the right conditions any pet would eat you, maybe even your own children.

MDT by definition acclimation is getting used to a new environment and trust is expecting the same results. Acclimation does not apply to what I was talking about.

[reptiledude987]

If you want to see some true love from your snake try this. Next feeding day rub a food item on your hand and put in front of your snake. First you will get some tongue action then a big open mouth kiss and a big hug!

[RAD House]

As they say love bites. So your point is that nothing that loves you will ever leave or hurt you. You must lead quite the charmed life.

[reptiledude987]

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

As they say love bites. So your point is that nothing that loves you will ever leave or hurt you. You must lead quite the charmed life.

well if I stick my hand in my dogs bag of food she dosent try to eat my hand. It will be licked alot but cetainly not chewed on.
As well I can walk my dog off leash and she dosent leave my side. She wants to go after every squirrel she sees but if not given the ok she dosent.

[MDT]

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

MDT by definition acclimation is getting used to a new environment and trust is expecting the same results. Acclimation does not apply to what I was talking about.

Ok...I'll restate. Your snake neither knows you or trusts you. Mine do not "know" me or "trust" me.

My retics could give a rat's behind who or what i am....when I open the enclosure, it's game time. Unless I break that response by tapping with a snake stick, paper towel roll, etc, if I put my hand in the enclosure, I will get bitten. Every. Single. Time.

Once I break that response, I can manipulate them out of the cage, but I will not let my guard down. I know what they are capable of.

That is their genetically imprinted behavior. That is what a retic "is". That is what I love about these amazingly beautiful animals. But there is no reciprocity on their part.

[RAD House]

Maybe he just doesn't like you. There is a noticeable difference in the flight response between when I hold the snakes compared to my lady due to the fact that I handle them more often. This only speculation but I believe this means they trust that I will not harm them more so than my gentler half.

[RAD House]

Obliviously some snakes will never be comfortable but we are asking what a snake is capable of. By the way just joshing about the hate thing.

For the record I have been bitten by my dog way worse than any of my snakes could muster. It was accidental. Have you never seen a dog with food aggression?

[prairiepanda]

I'm surprised nobody else has commented on this yet:

Originally Posted by sophiedufort

Snakes are not display pets. If someone bought them for that purpose, then the poor snakes have fallen in the wrong hands.

Erm, why is having a snake as a display pet bad exactly? Snakes are solitary animals in the wild, so social interaction isn't a need that must be provided in captivity. Snakes kept purely for display are often kept in the most naturalistic and spacious enclosures, too, so I don't see how this could be a bad thing. It would be different if someone had, say, a rat. Rats are very social animals and can develop serious illnesses and harmful behavioral issues if they do not receive socialization, which is why it's often recommended for people to buy multiple rats or else take their single rat out frequently for attention and play/snuggle time. But for an animal like a snake that would normally live a solitary life, it won't be any worse for wear if it never leaves its enclosure. Assuming, of course, that the enclosure provides a suitable environment and sufficient space for the species.

As for love and affection... well, my snakes trust me and recognize me, and they have different opinions about different people, and yes some of them approach me of their own accord and snuggle with me for warmth or demand rubs from me...but snakes don't have a limbic system. Someone keeps saying they "experience the same chemical reactions we do" but that isn't true(at least not to the extent suggested) because their physiology is completely different. I do feel that we are limited in our knowledge of a snake's thought process because of practical barriers in research, so I wouldn't say anything is certain here. Perhaps some species do possess some degree of affection(apparently some rattlesnakes care for their young and bring them food), but this appears to be quite rare, and I certainly would not expect that affection to extend to other species.

My snakes have some sort of bond with me; they know me and seek me out specifically, but that doesn't mean they actually care about me. They know I'm trustworthy and can provide them with warmth and rubs. But if I were passed out in a burning building, my snakes(if they were roaming free) would certainly abandon me and flee for their lives without a thought. My cat, despite being physically unable to rescue me, would likely rather die trying to wake me than to escape and live on without me. When I was living in dorms and had to leave my pets behind, my cat became depressed, fat, antisocial, and stopped cleaning herself to the point where matted fur was causing her physical pain, but she was back to normal within 2 weeks of moving to my new apartment with me. Meanwhile the snake that had been left behind along with her was perfectly healthy the whole time. How can that be called love?

[MDT]

sooooo............looking at the reptilian brain.....inspecting the structures that are actually present, and noting the structures that are absent from said brain....noting that there is absence of certain structures that are responsible for formation of emotional thought patterns....and given all of this demonstrable data...oh well....

[stevowns]

Originally Posted by eminart

Biologically, why would a snake exhibit "love"? They aren't social animals. The very word "love" is a human construct used to explain biological adaptations that promote the spread of our genes. Other social animals exhibit some of the same "love" behaviors as humans. Reptiles, insects, etc. not so much.

I think you're anthropromorhizing the actions of your snake - actions that can be explained in ways that make more sense for a snake's natural behavior. The human brain looks for patterns. It often finds patterns where there really are none, or misinterprets animal behavior by applying human logic.

100% agreed.


It's not that we don't believe that the actions of our snakes can be 'affectionate', it's more of having the respect for an animal that biologically isn't capable of having emotions. Snakes lack both the limbic and neocortex parts of the brain that we have. They PHYSICALLY aren't capable of having these affectionate emotions that we as SOCIAL animals have (That's one of the reasons why we as humans would for the most part go insane if isolated for long periods of time while most reptiles are perfectly fine living in solitude their whole lives).


I believe the OP had mentioned that her snake would get jealous, well, snakes aren't capable of that either. I think its narrow minded to force these human-centric attributes such as love, affection and jealousy onto animals that basically can't feel any of those things. Rather, I believe most people have an admiration for their ability to 'tolerate' us in that we provide them the best husbandry as we can, which in turn will keep their stress levels down and live a content and satisfied life.

[millertime89]

Originally Posted by MDT

I got a good laugh out of this but please play nicely.