Herps you don't think should be kept as pets?

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by 54bogger

I kinda like the shotgun option!lol

Well, it has a certain appeal, I agree...

But here's a few downsides to that approach:

• whats the fun of keeping stuff if you always have to be discreet and you can't show it off?
• let's face it, you'll eventually be caught (remember option #3 of last post)
• if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem

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I'll give you two examples of people I know...

Guy #1 has a mouth, personality and mindset like many here; does not believe the govt has any right to tell him what he can or cannot keep or catch. He's been busted a few times for possessing illegal herps. Now he's on our game warden's radar. He's a little wiser nowadays, but unfortunately, his past experience has hurt his chances for being able to work with the system with obtaining the licenses/permits to possess what he wants to keep.

Guy #2: fundamentally believes the same way, doesn't agree with a lot of our laws, but has been fortunate enough for many yrs to work with local govt and game service, so he is able to obtain said permits and possess species many are not able to, as well as have connections some do not have. He may not agree with the system...but he knows how to work with it.

Just more food for thought...

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Well, it has a certain appeal, I agree...

But here's a few downsides to that approach:

• whats the fun of keeping stuff if you always have to be discreet and you can't show it off?
• let's face it, you'll eventually be caught (remember option #3 of last post)
• if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem

----
I'll give you two examples of people I know...

Guy #1 has a mouth, personality and mindset like many here; does not believe the govt has any right to tell him what he can or cannot keep or catch. He's been busted a few times for possessing illegal herps. Now he's on our game warden's radar. He's a little wiser nowadays, but unfortunately, his past experience has hurt his chances for being able to work with the system with obtaining the licenses/permits to possess what he wants to keep.

Guy #2: fundamentally believes the same way, doesn't agree with a lot of our laws, but has been fortunate enough for many yrs to work with local govt and game service, so he is able to obtain said permits and possess species many are not able to, as well as have connections some do not have. He may not agree with the system...but he knows how to work with it.

Just more food for thought...

I fall under the category of guy#2. But I have to disagree with;

• whats the fun of keeping stuff if you always have to be discreet and you can't show it off?

I keep my snake because I like them and have no need to show others. I show other only for educational purposes and to keep my licenses. I would be just as happy to keep all my snakes out of the public's eye and to enjoy them for just me.

[FWK]

Well said StudentoReptile, although in stark contrast to opinions you previously expressed, finally some common ground. I deal with so many paranoid, fundamentally anti-American, government hating nut jobs in the firearm community that I may be a bit quick to judge, but I do not think I misread you. I had a pretty good idea of who you were by the way you express yourself. In the past couple of days I've done a bit of digging and to my delight I was able to confirm most of my inklings.

From this thread:

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

The bottom line is that this hobby HAS infringed upon on others.

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

It only stands to reason that owning and caring for a large and/or venomous animal should require a licensing system as well.

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

I even think large lizard species like iguanas and monitors should be regulated, but I know that's going to be a hard sell (especially iguanas).

You are clearly, by these statements at least, pro-regulation and not just willing to compromise. The first rule of war is to know your enemy. You insist the government is the enemy here but I know that you know better. I know you know better because I've been able to track down (not that is was difficult) and read many years worth of your blogs and other random postings on a variety of sites. You have said most everything I have said in this thread yourself in the past. So either your opinions have changed over the years, you are simply argumentative and/or enjoy a debate for the sake of debate (which I understand, I enjoy a good debate myself) or you actually on some level believe that people should not have the right to keep (I have a few ideas as to which and why but I am pretty sure you are going to clear it up for me shortly).

I am sure now that you and I stand on the same fundamentals on this matter (by and large at least and despite the quotes above) and will refrain from discussing these issues any further with you in this thread. I think I've made my opinions here clear, I'd like to hear from more of the community and will clear the floor.

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by FWK

You are clearly, by these statements at least, pro-regulation and not just willing to compromise. The first rule of war is to know your enemy. You insist the government is the enemy here but I know that you know better.

Yep.

So either your opinions have changed over the years, you are simply argumentative and/or enjoy a debate for the sake of debate (which I understand, I enjoy a good debate myself) or you actually on some level believe that people should not have the right to keep

Actually, all three are true.
1.) Yes, my opinions have changed some over the yrs. I was once very pro-herp-keeping rights, and pro-USARK, and anti-regulation, etc. The more I observe the past few yrs and the more I research I have in the past 3-4 yrs has changed my views on the hobby and industry. I know it is very pessimistic, but someone tell me I am wrong. I know there are good people out there, but they are in a tight minority. The vast majority is greed-driven and product-driven (much like the rest of our society and world).
2.) Yes, I like to argue for the heck of it, and sometimes, I can easily argue both sides of a debate, too!
3.) As mentioned above, I do not believe a person has a "right" or entitlement to possess or keep any animal just because they happen to like that particular animal.
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All in all, good thread, and I hope it got some people thinking.

In the big picture, changes will not happen unless enough people rally together and work toward those goals. Of course, irresponsible keepers will still make bad decisions, which will always reflect poorly on the entire hobby. Unfortunately, as long as [most] hobbyists are being REACTIVE: only focused on protecting their "right" to keep genetic mutations and giant snakes, etc, and keep going on buying/selling snakes, while not being PROACTIVE: also doing education, being aware of conservation, and trying to protect our ability to keep other species (native, etc)....no one's really helping, are they?
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Here's some more food for thought...

A photo circulated the web recently depicting a truckload of Uromastyx lizards collected and killed, allegedly for bushmeat. The herp community went nuts, claiming it was BS, and the lizards were collected for novelty or whatever, and even if they were used for bushmeat, how come there is no regulation on the numbers collected to help conserve that species of Uromastyx?

My question is: how is that any different than what we do for ball pythons? We collect and import thousands of BPs every yrs with no regulation, all in the name of the pet trade. Where's the conservation going on in the ball market?

[note: I have a ball python that I've had for over 25 yrs. He's the only one I have, and I don't breed them and never plan to own any more. Just wanted to say I'm not trying to knock the BP market - just using it as an example. If you prefer, insert any other popular species in its place such as leopard geckos, etc]