Stage 3 (Dry Season)

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by formica

not my conclusion, but that of a specialist reptile vet who saw him before and after - as I stated would be happening at the start of the thread.

I was referring to the quotation below that statement actually, but both work. Who specifically is the vet? What are their credentials? It's been well established that even specialist reptile vets don't necessarily know much when it comes to Varanids...

[murrindindi]

Hi, I`d like to ask for the results of the x-rays, blood tests, etc, etc before and after the experiment, I think they would be most interesting. Also, what you and the vet consider to be "perfect health" for a captive Varanid of any species? Thanks!

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by mdfmonitor

I went on to explain i'd dropped the temps down to 140f surface basking spot & around 73f background temps, his usual temps are 160f surface basking spot & around 76f back ground temps, this shut him down.

Many keepers still keep their animals at the temps i was using to cool Lenny, point been you should have times they are not running at full pelt, but at the same time you need the higher temps to maintain a good fit body condition, you can't achieve that on 120f & 75f background heat.

A good sized run with deep substrate/ or decent large soil boxes will allow your sav to find what it's needs as opposed to what we think it needs, they do need slow periods as in a dry season but the sav will find the right temp underground with the right humidity till the correct environment returns above ground, so a good set-up backed with the right temps it won't bother the sav because that's what they evolved to do.

Hi, Mark, I`d like to ask you what you think happens to the MANY species that are active year round in the wild ("running at full pelt") as you put it, do they burn themselves out and die prematurely?
Have you ever kept species that spend much of their life high in the canopies in the wild, do they experience basking surface temps of 160f on a very regular basis, and if not, do they "shut down" (or die prematurely)?
How do you know Savannah monitors would suffer if the conditions supported activity and all that goes with it throughout the year?
You are giving figures that may be suportive to some species/individuals but not to others, I feel generalising in this way is a mistake.
These are simply questions, NOT criticisms!

[formica]

there was no cause for X-Rays, that is not the kind of risk level procedure I would ask to be done for the sake of it

when and if I get the blood test results by email, I will post them up.

what do I consider perfect health? I would consider a specialist's opinion on the matter, to be the only reliable answer to that question

[MDT]

Why do you say there was "no cause for x-rays"? You are trying to be thorough, no? Can you definitively say there has been no calcium deposition in the kidneys? Are you concerned about radiation exposure? If so, what exactly is the "risk level" associated there? As for the blood tests, you'd subject your animal to a stress producing painful procedure with zero validation of the results? What is the "normal" sodium level or creatinine level for a Savanna monitor? Does your vet *really* know? Has anyone ever done field collecting of blood data of multiple specimens? I ask partly because I truly don't know that answer. But if the answer is "no", then you just have a page of numbers that fit into a "normal range" for "a lizard".

[formica]

Originally Posted by MDT

Why do you say there was "no cause for x-rays"? You are trying to be thorough, no? Can you definitively say there has been no calcium deposition in the kidneys? Are you concerned about radiation exposure? If so, what exactly is the "risk level" associated there? As for the blood tests, you'd subject your animal to a stress producing painful procedure with zero validation of the results? What is the "normal" sodium level or creatinine level for a Savanna monitor? Does your vet *really* know? Has anyone ever done field collecting of blood data of multiple specimens? I ask partly because I truly don't know that answer. But if the answer is "no", then you just have a page of numbers that fit into a "normal range" for "a lizard".

I do not have answers for any of those questions except, yes the risks from radiation exposure is of concern when there is no clear benefit from the procedure, and that I have no reason to mistrust the vets judgement or experience

[murrindindi]

Originally Posted by formica

there was no cause for X-Rays, that is not the kind of risk level procedure I would ask to be done for the sake of it

when and if I get the blood test results by email, I will post them up.

what do I consider perfect health? I would consider a specialist's opinion on the matter, to be the only reliable answer to that question

If your exotic vet is not a specialist in Varanids he/she is NOT a reliable source in determining what is "perfect" health or "normal" for these animals!

[formica]

Originally Posted by murrindindi

If your exotic vet is not a specialist in Varanids he/she is NOT a reliable source in determining what is "perfect" health or "normal" for these animals!

you mean that he is less reliable than random people on the internet

but any way, his knowledge of Varanid husbandry was spot on, and his experience with them goes back many years, he clearly spends his time researching all the animals that he works with, as any professional would be expected to do - not doing so, would be unprofessional.

demanding that vets specialize in one family of animals, is just a little bit unreasonable and unrealistic, that's what scientists are for.

[mdfmonitor]

Originally Posted by formica

you mean that he is less reliable than random people on the internet

but any way, his knowledge of Varanid husbandry was spot on, and his experience with them goes back many years, he clearly spends his time researching all the animals that he works with, as any professional would be expected to do - not doing so, would be unprofessional.

demanding that vets specialize in one family of animals, is just a little bit unreasonable and unrealistic, that's what scientists are for.

formica you are way way over the pint of defending your findings right or wrong, leave it be , give us some feed back another 6 months time & see how things are going.

[Terranaut]

Yup ....over the pint for sure
Do you have any pics of your sav and it's enclosure?
Just curious.

[mdfmonitor]

Originally Posted by Terranaut

Yup ....over the pint for sure
Do you have any pics of your sav and it's enclosure?
Just curious.

not again lol!!

[formica]

cant really expect me to not respond to peoples posts, can you?

I have searched every website I could think of, contacted various veterinary associations in the UK, and none have been able to point me n the direction of a Varanid specialist vet, still waiting to hear back from a few, but I have my doubts that they even exist outside of science labs.

Originally Posted by Terranaut

Yup ....over the pint for sure
Do you have any pics of your sav and it's enclosure?
Just curious.

yeah I'll get round to putting some up recent ones up eventually! been a while - did try and get some top down shots a little while ago, and got bitten for my efforts lol

[varanus_mad]

Hi formica please can I have the name of your vet thank you.