Monitor Care & Natural History; Zoo & Pet Experiences - Page 2

_Varanidae_ · 01-30-13, 08:25 AM

For those interested in learning more about the study, here is a link to the article's abstract:

A Retrospective Study of Mortality in Varanid Lizards (Reptilia:Squamata:Varanidae) at the Bronx Zoo: Implications for Husbandry and Reproductive Management in Zoos - Mendyk - 2012 - Zoo Biology - Wiley Online Library

If you message/e-mail me, I will gladly send you a pdf of our study. While it is aimed specifically at zoo husbandry- in an effort to break the "well, this is what we've always done" keeping mentality present in many zoo herpetology departments, all of the information presented and discussed is relevant to private collections as well. I feel that the results of this study are well-representative of zoo varanid husbandry as a whole, which, with the exception of a few zoos, is largely inadequate by today's standards.

Another problem that I have noticed among the zoo sector (and this also goes for the majority of private keepers as well), is that there is little familiarity with current literature on the biology and husbandry of varanid lizards. Case in point, the most recent AZA Asian Forest Monitor Studbook (published in 2010) contains taxon management accounts (i.e. recommendations for care and breeding) that were compiled in 1996! Zoos using these accounts as guidelines for their own husbandry are conceivably employing husbandry and breeding methods that are nearly 20 years old, and missing out on a wealth of information generated in only the last 10 or 15 years...

jarich · 01-30-13, 09:41 AM

Hahahaha, looks like Wayne has been busy. Or is it just coincidence that the 'big guns' were all lurking here yesterday? I dont think we've ever had a thread with so many accredited titles and letters after the names as this one. Welcome back to all three of you and thanks for your responses.

dinosaurdammit · 01-30-13, 11:51 AM

i feel so sorry for monitors in captivity, zoos seem to be the biggest offenders- too stubborn to change their way of keeping because they have been doing it that way for as long as time even though the monitors languish and then die, they just get new ones.

bronxzoofrank · 01-30-13, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodiddleyitis

The biggest breakthroughs in monitor lizard husbandry in the last quarter century have been the recognition that access to high basking temperatures and increased humidity are necessary to allow the animals to metabolise freely. As far as I am aware this is true for all species. It's disappointing to read that savannah monitors "develop health problems in damp enclosures" when all the available evidence suggests that most die because they are kept much too dry.

Hello,

Many species native to arid habitats spend a good deal of time in humid burrows, i,e the gila monster. I'm not aware, in any of the zoos with which I've been associated, of savannah monitors dying as a result of being kept in dry conditions, as is typical, Access to a water bowl large enough for soaking was always provided. Best, Frank

infernalis · 01-30-13, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronxzoofrank

Hello,

Many species native to arid habitats spend a good deal of time in humid burrows, i,e the gila monster. I'm not aware, in any of the zoos with which I've been associated, of savannah monitors dying as a result of being kept in dry conditions, as is typical, Access to a water bowl large enough for soaking was always provided. Best, Frank

No offense Frank, My Savannah Monitors have never once drank, soaked or defecated in their water source.

My animals glean their necessary moisture from their prey, and conserve it by breathing humid air and retreating into their burrows.

bronxzoofrank · 01-30-13, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Varanidae_

For those interested in learning more about the study, here is a link to the article's abstract:

A Retrospective Study of Mortality in Varanid Lizards (Reptilia:Squamata:Varanidae) at the Bronx Zoo: Implications for Husbandry and Reproductive Management in Zoos - Mendyk - 2012 - Zoo Biology - Wiley Online Library

If you message/e-mail me, I will gladly send you a pdf of our study. While it is aimed specifically at zoo husbandry- in an effort to break the "well, this is what we've always done" keeping mentality present in many zoo herpetology departments, all of the information presented and discussed is relevant to private collections as well. I feel that the results of this study are well-representative of zoo varanid husbandry as a whole, which, with the exception of a few zoos, is largely inadequate by today's standards.

Another problem that I have noticed among the zoo sector (and this also goes for the majority of private keepers as well), is that there is little familiarity with current literature on the biology and husbandry of varanid lizards. Case in point, the most recent AZA Asian Forest Monitor Studbook (published in 2010) contains taxon management accounts (i.e. recommendations for care and breeding) that were compiled in 1996! Zoos using these accounts as guidelines for their own husbandry are conceivably employing husbandry and breeding methods that are nearly 20 years old, and missing out on a wealth of information generated in only the last 10 or 15 years...

My experience has not been as you describe, re zoos in general; thanks for article note, I'll send a private message with email,

murrindindi · 01-30-13, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronxzoofrank

Hello,

Many species native to arid habitats spend a good deal of time in humid burrows, i,e the gila monster. I'm not aware, in any of the zoos with which I've been associated, of savannah monitors dying as a result of being kept in dry conditions, as is typical, Access to a water bowl large enough for soaking was always provided. Best, Frank

Hi,
I`d like to ask you how old the oldest Savannah monitors were at death, the results of the post mortems if those were carried out, and how many times the species was bred at the zoo, if at all?
By the way, I used to be in contact with Dr. Sam Lee, I know he donated his Ornate and Mertens monitors to the zoo when the females became gravid, are any of the original pairs still alive, and have they or their offspring reproduced since then?
He was kind enough to send me the paper on reproduction (I`m not sure if it was ever published), I`m aware he left a few years ago to pursue a different (more lucrative) career, have you heard from him recently?
Thanks!

bronxzoofrank · 01-30-13, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

No offense Frank, My Savannah Monitors have never once drank, soaked or defecated in their water source.

My animals glean their necessary moisture from their prey, and conserve it by breathing humid air and retreating into their burrows.

Thank you; That has not been my experience.

bronxzoofrank · 01-30-13, 12:45 PM

Hi all,

I've worked in and with zoos on 4 continents; while there are and will always be problems, exceptions to the rule, etc., my experience is not in line with the generalized criticisms expressed earlier, at least as regards well-funded institutions in the USA, Europe and Japan. Again, there are a number of ways to go about providing proper care, and it is very helpful to have various opinions and experiences posted. Best, Frank

Lankyrob · 01-30-13, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi,
I`d like to ask you how old the oldest Savannah monitors were at death, the results of the post mortems if those were carried out, and how many times the species was bred at the zoo, if at all?
By the way, I used to be in contact with Dr. Sam Lee, I know he donated his Ornate and Mertens monitors to the zoo when the females became gravid, are any of the original pairs still alive, and have they or their offspring reproduced since then?
He was kind enough to send me the paper on reproduction (I`m not sure if it was ever published), I`m aware he left a few years ago to pursue a different (more lucrative) career, have you heard from him recently?
Thanks!

I would love to hear the response to this...........

varanus_mad · 01-30-13, 01:27 PM

Frank why is the article so sketchy in terms of breeding details?

bronxzoofrank · 01-30-13, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varanus_mad

Frank why is the article so sketchy in terms of breeding details? .

Article is not meant to detail monitor breeding; thank you

bronxzoofrank · 01-30-13, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murrindindi

Hi,
I`d like to ask you how old the oldest Savannah monitors were at death, the results of the post mortems if those were carried out, and how many times the species was bred at the zoo, if at all?
By the way, I used to be in contact with Dr. Sam Lee, I know he donated his Ornate and Mertens monitors to the zoo when the females became gravid, are any of the original pairs still alive, and have they or their offspring reproduced since then?
He was kind enough to send me the paper on reproduction (I`m not sure if it was ever published), I`m aware he left a few years ago to pursue a different (more lucrative) career, have you heard from him recently?
Thanks!

Hello,

All animals are subject to autopsy upon death; I do not have the other info you mention; I worked with Sam Lee briefly, when he first began zoo work, but am not in touch with him.

bronxzoofrank · 01-30-13, 02:06 PM

Hi All,

I'm buried in work, cannot give this topic the attention it deserves right now, and am starting to see personal criticisms which I will not address in any event. Please continue to post your thoughts, I'll check in but will refrain from further comments until I have a chance to look into some of the points readers have made a bit further; Best, Frank

murrindindi · 01-30-13, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronxzoofrank

Hello,

All animals are subject to autopsy upon death; I do not have the other info you mention; I worked with Sam Lee briefly, when he first began zoo work, but am not in touch with him.

Hi again, thanks for the reply, I guess the best thing would be to contact the WCS and ask if they`d give the info on causes of death and further breeding (easily done).

In terms of the captive conditions you describe, were you merely stating what they were (are?), and did you have input in them yourself, and are you still involved, if so, would you be prepared to advise making changes in view of the responses and concerns expressed here so far, or are you satisfied the conditions are/were more than adequate? I personally don`t think "adequate" is good enough, it must be the best possible.

It can only help the hobby when experienced keepers like yourself offer details of their work/methods, and I thank you for doing that. I actuallly joined this website specifically to learn more about the work you`ve been involved in, and take part in the discussions with you.