An aspiring keeper with many curiosities

[StudentoReptile]

From what I have heard, a set of sturdy hooks (different sizes, of course) are about the best tools for working within the confines of an enclosed room. It has been told to me by more than one hot keeper that tongs are not favorable because most models do not have a safety feature for when you squeeze the handle; in other words, you can squeeze the handle hard and inadvertently crush the ribs or spine of the snake on the other end. Many keepers choose not to use tongs for handling their snakes for this reason, and only use tongs for removing water bowls, sheds, etc. The only exception is the Gentle Giant made by Midwest which does have a safety release, which means at a certain point, you can squeeze it as hard as you can, and it only applies the necessary (and safe) amount of pressure required to grip the snake. The disadvantage is that this is a big set of tongs, and not really feasible for small, thin species.

[RandyRhoads]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I totally forgot about insurance. Also home owners insurance. I especially think if you're going to keep venomous snakes that FULL disclosure is a must. We get a bad rep as reptile keepers already and we don't need bad publicity when someone's bit by their rattler in their closet....

Aaron can you please give some info related to how hots effect home owners insurance? I've been wondering for a while now how it would effect mine and the best way to go about it. Would they even continue coverage if they knew? Would it matter to them? Is it none of there business?

I also love the idea of 2 signs at different levels. That is excellent, and something for every hot keeper to consider. I would hate to be crawling in to a smoke filled house with terrible visibility to come face to face with a cobra and possibly get bit.

Originally Posted by StudentoReptile

Let me ask you a question: do you think someone can learn how to operate and shoot a gun over the internet? or drive a car?

Yes. But only with practice can you become experienced and proficient at it.
A new driver is one of the scariest things out there to me. You take a kid that has barely any life experience, most with very little responsibility, and put them in control of a couple thousand pound weapon and let them free to terrorize the world.

[StudentoReptile]

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

A new driver is one of the scariest things out there to me. You take a kid that has barely any life experience, most with very little responsibility, and put them in control of a couple thousand pound weapon and let them free to terrorize the world.

But can you imagine how more dangerous they would be without a driver's test with a real person in the passenger seat guiding them and giving direction?

Same with guns. Most people have the "general idea" of what a gun is and how it works, and how you operate it. But you generally seek out someone who owns guns, someone who is proficient in maintaining them, shooting them, proper stance, etc.

[Dracorex5]

I've read that some insurances will pay for kept reptile bites, but some have pet based exemptions that you have to pay attention to when signing on! I'd honestly prefer not to get bit in all honesty, but when you play with fire, the chance of getting burned is so much higher.

Speaking of bites, and I've read a lot about them, and seen quite a few pictures over the past few months (as a friend of mine who wanted to start a reptile business with me is incredibly dead-set on keeping me away from the hots, and not without good reason). I understand that different chemicals cause different damage, and its certainly a bigger deal than being bit by one of my tarantulas! But what is the effect of venom according to size? I am rather small, 5 ft 1 and 100 lbs.... I know this will probably decrease my ability to fight off venom.... but how badly will it decrease said ability? I'm not supposed to grow anymore (I haven't gained an inch since 9th grade!) and I dont really plan on gaining much more weight (then again, who does?). I also have a few medical conditions as well. What puts you at highest risk for permanent damage? What snakes should definiatly be avoided in the case of anemia and joint conditions? I was bitten by a friend's nasty baboon T. a year or two back and have been stung once or twice by the occational scorpion and have had no negative allergic effects, but that doesnt mean my body can take on even a mildly venomous reptile without going berserk on me.

[RandyRhoads]

Originally Posted by Dracorex5

Speaking of bites, and I've read a lot about them, and seen quite a few pictures over the past few months (as a friend of mine who wanted to start a reptile business with me is incredibly dead-set on keeping me away from the hots, and not without good reason). I understand that different chemicals cause different damage, and its certainly a bigger deal than being bit by one of my tarantulas! But what is the effect of venom according to size? I am rather small, 5 ft 1 and 100 lbs.... I know this will probably decrease my ability to fight off venom.... but how badly will it decrease said ability? I'm not supposed to grow anymore (I haven't gained an inch since 9th grade!) and I dont really plan on gaining much more weight (then again, who does?). I also have a few medical conditions as well. What puts you at highest risk for permanent damage? What snakes should definiatly be avoided in the case of anemia and joint conditions? I was bitten by a friend's nasty baboon T. a year or two back and have been stung once or twice by the occational scorpion and have had no negative allergic effects, but that doesnt mean my body can take on even a mildly venomous reptile without going berserk on me.

Hemophilia and any blood thinner meds like Coumadin or Warfarin would put you at more risk. Your question is extremely too broad. I wont sit here and map out every venom for you but here is a common example for you using the Western Diamondback.

The LD50 of C.atrox for you being 100 pounds would be 900mg IM or 121 IV. The average bite yeilds producing between 175-600mg of venom.

If I were to get bit at 170 pounds the LD50 would be 1.5g IM or 206mg IV.

Either one of gets bit in a vein the chances are we will both be injected with more than enough to reach the LD50, either one of gets bit in a muscle, we should both have way less venom than the LD50 . So to somewhat answer your question it's much more related to the amount of venom injected and the place you're bitten, than our weight difference.


What snakes should definitely be avoided? For you, it sounds like all of them...

[Dracorex5]

The sad truths of life....Tiny people cant do as much as big people can! However, I have seen some small hot keepers, and will of course look more into it before making a decision. Life is very short, and while that doesnt mean you can make stupid decisions all the time, it shouldnt be allowed to stop you from fulfilling what you truly want to do in life. I'll investigate conditions of venom in the bodies of small victims, maybe I'll find someone my size who has taken a hit.

[RandyRhoads]

Did you read any of that..............................

[MDT]

Originally Posted by Dracorex5

But what is the effect of venom according to size? I am rather small, 5 ft 1 and 100 lbs.... I know this will probably decrease my ability to fight off venom.... but how badly will it decrease said ability? I'm not supposed to grow anymore (I haven't gained an inch since 9th grade!) and I dont really plan on gaining much more weight (then again, who does?). I also have a few medical conditions as well. What puts you at highest risk for permanent damage?

Dracorex5...."fighting off venom" isn't really the issue. Venom is a dose dependant issue. Based on the venom itself (hemo/neuro toxins, amount injected, vascular bite, facial bite, etc) and your overall size and health. I have treated multiple copperhead bites as an ER doc, most are not serious and many times the patient has not met criteria for antivenom. One of the worst bites I have treated was a pygmy rattlesnake bite in a child. She was bitten on her hand 3 times. It was a small snake, but the victim was small as well. The venom was much more virulent that a copperhead. She did ok but it was pretty rough for a while. If you have underlying medical issues (comorbid conditions) you will have a harder time as well. Renal failure, cardiac issues, diabetes, etc....none of those set you up well for a good outcome.

I don't know if this helps, but you gotta know what ball field you're playing in....

[Dracorex5]

I'm sorry, I didnt see the editted version! I haven't been refreshing my pages very well! I somewhat just assumed your calculation was all by my size, sorry about that!

I'm still trying to comprehend calculations for these things, until a few days ago I have not been looking into antivenom and bite treatment as deeply as other things. In fact, this is the first actual ratio based on venom intake and body size that I have seen so far. My skills at reading will get better, at least I hope!

So, because I am small, I should forget it in general? I mean... I understand what you're saying, completely, it's a much higher risk. I don't know, I've been told my entire life I cant do things for this reason and that, and I've always been a bit stubborn about it. But stubbornness can lead to foolish decisions, I've broken eneogh bones to prove it! I'll give it time, learn more. All that can be done is learn more!

[Dracorex5]

Originally Posted by MDT

I don't know if this helps, but you gotta know what ball field you're playing in....

You certainly do... I always fear being "that person" who makes a beginner's mistake and ends up in a horrid position. Only reason why I'd start investigating so far ahead! I don't want to start on that path and slip up. I still need to learn much more about venom and it's properties and treatment obviously!

Any bit of information helps, everything counts! To convince me to forget it or make a situation more safe, I appreciate how informative you all are here! It seems like a very fine, helpful, and cautious community

[RandyRhoads]

Originally Posted by Dracorex5

So, because I am small, I should forget it in general? I mean... I understand what you're saying, completely, it's a much higher risk. I don't know, I've been told my entire life I cant do things for this reason and that, and I've always been a bit stubborn about it. But stubbornness can lead to foolish decisions, I've broken eneogh bones to prove it! I'll give it time, learn more. All that can be done is learn more!

No...the whole point of my post was to show you the size difference wasn't a big issue. Everything else about your posts is why I said it sounds like you should avoid them.

[Dracorex5]

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

No...the whole point of my post was to show you the size difference wasn't a big issue. Everything else about your posts is why I said it sounds like you should avoid them.

Ah! Apologies again... I've never been very good at catching on.... I understand now, thank you!

[Slcburm]

Not good at catching on? I'd say get a corn snake

[Dracorex5]

Sadly those are illegal in Georgia as far as I know! I'm more of a fan of the garters anyway, I love the swift movements of colubrids, so graceful! And I mean in dialoge.... I process mostly from voice tone and facial movements... I've never been good with words... Forums are hard for me because I never know which part of a message someone is trying to get me to focus on, and putting things in bold is inconviniant and makes me feel a little on the stupid side!

[MDT]

Originally Posted by Dracorex5

Sadly those are illegal in Georgia

????????????????
Seriously?