Legal interpretation

[Strutter769]

If you'll remember, yesterday we discussed temporarily re-homing Amelia Mae for our friend Jazzmyne. In that thread, I mentioned that it may not necessarily be legal here in Elgin... and apologize as ithat may NOT be entirely accurate. I've presented below the actual statute as provided by the City of Elgin's website:

"D. It is unlawful to keep, harbor, possess, maintain, or have the care or custody in the city of: (1) any snake, reptile or lizard that is physically capable of injuring any person, regardless of age, by bite, poison, constriction or other means; (2) any lion, tiger, cougar, jaguar, panther, bobcat, mountain lion, lynx, ocelet, leopard, any hybrid thereof or any other similar feline animal; (3) any wolf, coyote, jackal, fox, wild dog or hybrid thereof; (4) any bear or bison; (5) any rodent weighing more than one pound, with the exception of guinea pigs; (6) any non-canine animal not native to North American continent which when full grown normally attains the weight in excess of 200 pounds; and (7) any monkey, gorilla, chimpanzee or other similar ape-like primate. Any animal, snake, reptile, rodent or other creature prohibited to be kept, harbored, possessed or maintained i the city pursuant to this Section is declared hereby to be public nuisance and may be" apprehended and impounded at any time by a police officer or the Animal Control Officer. If such animal cannot be relocated safely to an entity licensed to handle the dangerous animal in the sole discretion of the Chief of Police, the Chief of Police may order the humane destruction of such animal. This section shall not apply to properly zoned and constructed zoos, federally licensed exhibits, circuses, animal refuges, or licensed scientific or research laboratories."

Now I ask you, am I able to own a snake or reptile in Elgin? Well, I posed that very same question to Mr. Chris Beck, the Attorney for the City.

His response: "I'm not sure!"

He went on to say: "Let me get in contact with the Animal Control officers and see how they've been enforcing it and I'll get back to you."

My friends, I DO believe that snakes and reptiles ARE in fact LEGAL in Elgin!!

Stand by for more details as they arrive!

How cool would this be?

Ok, please interpret the statute as you understand it below.

Thanks!

[Trollbie]

Scare tactic!

[BarelyBreathing]

I would get whatever answer you get in writing with an official seal on it, Roy. Be careful. Any animal can bite.

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by Strutter769

(1) any snake, reptile or lizard that is physically capable of injuring any person, regardless of age, by bite, poison, constriction or other means;

it ALL depends on how they enforce it mate

MOST snakes are CAPABLE of injuring a person with a bite

so.....

how bad does the " injury " have to be,to have it deemed an INJURY ?????

i'd call the lawyer dude back and see if he's any further forward

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by BarelyBreathing

I would get whatever answer you get in writing with an official seal on it, Roy. Be careful. Any animal can bite.

^^^^^
thats a great point pal

get lawyer dude to put it in writing mate

cheers shaun

[Strutter769]

You're exactly right, BB. *Any* animal can bite and any bite can be considered an injury. So my question was "Where do you draw the line between a bite and an injury?"

But shouldn't he, the ATTORNEY be contacting a JUDGE for interpretation and not just ask the officers how they enforce it?

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by Strutter769

You're exactly right, BB. *Any* animal can bite and any bite can be considered an injury. So my question was "Where do you draw the line between a bite and an injury?"

But shouldn't he, the ATTORNEY be contacting a JUDGE for interpretation and not just ask the officers how they enforce it?

the judge will only see cases,that the officers reffer to the courts,so imo it would be better asking them,when the line is crossed resulting in a court case mate

cheers shaun

[BarelyBreathing]

I would get the judge to put it in writing though. Or the local DoW. The more documents you have saying you can keep your snake, the better. The mayor may be a good one to have, too.

[Strutter769]

But don't they have to be given a guideline at least as to what exactly IS legal and what isn't?

[Strutter769]

Oh yeah, I'll get the answer in writing. You think the Mayor would just sign at my request? What if they just say no?

[shaunyboy]

Originally Posted by Strutter769

But don't they have to be given a guideline at least as to what exactly IS legal and what isn't?

thats how lawyers make their money mate

argueing what legislation actually means

there may have been precedents already set,regarding the species you want to keep

cheers shaun

[Strutter769]

True, Shaun. I wonder how long it'll take him to get back to me?

[USMCgunner11]

Wow! They left that very broad and open. Is there any way you could gain access to court records and see if they have ever even prosecuted anyone under this clause? If they have, the outcome of those rulings may give you insight as to how they are enforcing it.

[Strutter769]

That'd be a great thing to ask when/if the atty calls me back. Thanks Gunner!

[millertime89]

Here's my 2 cents:
As pointed out, by definition, nearly any animal is capable of causing an "injury", where I think the line should be drawn is an injury requiring hospitalization. But since this isn't in writing I wouldn't count on it. What I would try and do is get on good terms with a city council member or a member of your city's government in a position to bring this issue up. However be careful as this will raise awareness of the general public and will regularly draw attention from the lobbying arm of the HSUS which may result in stricter regulations.

The way I'm reading that is that it is illegal to have ANY animal other than birds, fish, VERY small reptiles, amphibians, small rodents, and dogs. Notice the "similar feline animal" part? Sounds like cats are illegal to me and while I doubt that is the intention of this law, it could very easily be construed as such.