Fish!

[Aaron_S]

Nice fish. I really dig the cichlids and the rams!

My partner and I have a 55 gallon tank with 4 frontosa's and 4 yellow labs. It also harbours 3 cory cats, a gold algae eater and a clown loach. A couple of zebra snails as well.

Our 5 gallon has some assassin snails and a zebra snail with a large number of guppies and endlers and guppy endler hybrids.

My daughter has a 20 gallon with giant danios, a pearl danio, dwarf fire gourami, clown loach, 4 cory cats and some guppy/endler hybrids.

We also have a 10 gallon with a single tiger barb. He was beat up with an old red tail black shark tank mate so he's by himself until he's better.

[mistersprinkles]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Nice fish. I really dig the cichlids and the rams!

My partner and I have a 55 gallon tank with 4 frontosa's and 4 yellow labs. It also harbours 3 cory cats, a gold algae eater and a clown loach. A couple of zebra snails as well.

That is horribly wrong for so many reasons. You're keeping the equivalent of a bearded dragon and a GTP together.

Frontosa= pH > 8 gH > 9 temp 79

Clown Loach pH < 7 (CRITICAL) gH < 6 (CRITICAL) temp 85 (SUPER critical)

Your clown loaches will never reach full size and will eventually peter out and die. Frontosas stunt and do not live their full life span unless they are kept in a minimum six foot by two foot tank. Ideally eight foot by 18" as they can exceed 12". Clownloaches, similarly, can exceed 12".

Also, cory cats should not be kept in groups smaller than 12 for their psychological wellbeing.

What you need to do is remove everything that's incompatible with what you want to keep, and clown loach and frontosa are not on your option list for that size tank. I know a lot of people say otherwise. I gave a lecture at a zoo and worked in the aquarium section in a petshop and was also good friends with a renowned expert on loaches who has written several books (Martin Thoene, Clown loaches, TFH). I know what I'm talking about. In any event you also have to lose the golden algae eater by when it hits full size as it will become aggressive to other fish. They eat other fish's skin when they are adults, not algae.

Humane options:

Keep the yellow labs, build a tank around them, add other compatible fish, like another group of mbuna from lake malawi. You want to go to Cichlid-Forum.com and post in the lake malawi section. Good choices would be several different male peacocks and a couple of synodontis catfish.

Option B:

Keep corys. Add 10 more. Build a south american tank. Add a pair of angel fish, a trio of rams, and a group of tetras.


In Toronto if you want to go south american you want to talk to Harold at Menagerie Petshop. Parliament and Wellesley. If you want to go African Cichlids, talk to Mike at Finatics on Kennedy south of Eglinton. Harold can also help you set up the proper environment to grow plants if you're interested.

My daughter has a 20 gallon with giant danios, a pearl danio, dwarf fire gourami, clown loach, 4 cory cats and some guppy/endler hybrids.

danios are too fast for gouramis and frighten them. Clown loaches in a 20 gallon is cruel. This setup would get you kicked off a lot of fish forums if you even mentioned it. You REALLY need to get it together because the setups you have are not conducive to good health or calm animals. I've bred more fish than most people have kept and many people consider me an expert. You're not doing nice things for your fish.

This is the proper way to keep fish

Movie_0007.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket

You put things together that don't bother eachother.

Movie_0001-2.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket

Here at 34 seconds, the baby nanoluteus gets too close to the black paradise, and the black paradise wiggles to inform it, and the nano leans away in submission. That's the most 'fighting' you should ever see.

Movie_0009.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket

Here at 20 seconds, the bristlenose pleco has had enough of the nano stealing it's food, and opens its tail as a threat. Since the fish both speak the same language, the nano understands and goes away. Fish speak several distinct languages both in clicks which are inaudible to humans and with body language. A malawi cichlid's 'get lost or I will hurt you' is a convict cichlids 'i want to mate'. This causes MANY beat up convicts when they are kept in malawi tanks.

Sometimes things outright kill eachother. Assassins won't kill trumpets. They will kill ramshorns. If I put ramshorn snails in there that'd be irresponsible.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by mistersprinkles

That is horribly wrong for so many reasons. You're keeping the equivalent of a bearded dragon and a GTP together.

Frontosa= pH > 8 gH > 9 temp 79

Clown Loach pH < 7 (CRITICAL) gH < 6 (CRITICAL) temp 85 (SUPER critical)

Your clown loaches will never reach full size and will eventually peter out and die. Frontosas stunt and do not live their full life span unless they are kept in a minimum six foot by two foot tank. Ideally eight foot by 18" as they can exceed 12". Clownloaches, similarly, can exceed 12".

Also, cory cats should not be kept in groups smaller than 12 for their psychological wellbeing.

What you need to do is remove everything that's incompatible with what you want to keep, and clown loach and frontosa are not on your option list for that size tank. I know a lot of people say otherwise. I gave a lecture at a zoo and worked in the aquarium section in a petshop and was also good friends with a renowned expert on loaches who has written several books (Martin Thoene, Clown loaches, TFH). I know what I'm talking about. In any event you also have to lose the golden algae eater by when it hits full size as it will become aggressive to other fish. They eat other fish's skin when they are adults, not algae.

Humane options:

Keep the yellow labs, build a tank around them, add other compatible fish, like another group of mbuna from lake malawi. You want to go to Cichlid-Forum.com and post in the lake malawi section. Good choices would be several different male peacocks and a couple of synodontis catfish.

Option B:

Keep corys. Add 10 more. Build a south american tank. Add a pair of angel fish, a trio of rams, and a group of tetras.


In Toronto if you want to go south american you want to talk to Harold at Menagerie Petshop. Parliament and Wellesley. If you want to go African Cichlids, talk to Mike at Finatics on Kennedy south of Eglinton. Harold can also help you set up the proper environment to grow plants if you're interested.

My daughter has a 20 gallon with giant danios, a pearl danio, dwarf fire gourami, clown loach, 4 cory cats and some guppy/endler hybrids.

danios are too fast for gouramis and frighten them. Clown loaches in a 20 gallon is cruel. This setup would get you kicked off a lot of fish forums if you even mentioned it. You REALLY need to get it together because the setups you have are not conducive to good health or calm animals. I've bred more fish than most people have kept and many people consider me an expert. You're not doing nice things for your fish.

This is the proper way to keep fish

Movie_0007.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket

You put things together that don't bother eachother.

Movie_0001-2.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket

Here at 34 seconds, the baby nanoluteus gets too close to the black paradise, and the black paradise wiggles to inform it, and the nano leans away in submission. That's the most 'fighting' you should ever see.

Movie_0009.mp4 video by 111olbap - Photobucket

Here at 20 seconds, the bristlenose pleco has had enough of the nano stealing it's food, and opens its tail as a threat. Since the fish both speak the same language, the nano understands and goes away. Fish speak several distinct languages both in clicks which are inaudible to humans and with body language. A malawi cichlid's 'get lost or I will hurt you' is a convict cichlids 'i want to mate'. This causes MANY beat up convicts when they are kept in malawi tanks.

Sometimes things outright kill eachother. Assassins won't kill trumpets. They will kill ramshorns. If I put ramshorn snails in there that'd be irresponsible.

First of all don't be a wimp and say "you're not attacking me" and not to get offended when you rightfully are attacking me by calling me inhumane.

Secondly, you just out right came attacking me. You didn't ask questions first. For an expert to just come out and NOT ask a question first tells me you aren't one. You do not know how old my fish are, how long I've kept them this way or if they are being moved to larger digs or not. I have done plenty of research and spoke openly on cichlid forums before I put my tanks together.

I know how large frontosa's get. I know how much room they need. I also know about cory cats as well as clown loaches.I know they'll be moved up in tank size or out soon. I also know how big my gold algae eater will get and what happens when it is that large. I have done my homework as well as worked in multiple pet shops tending to the aquariums.

I know my 20 gallon is a jumble currently but they don't harm one another. I don't see a stress problem with my danios and gourami. They do quite well together. I actually find the gourami to be one of the more voracious feeders. I am not trying to breed these fish. I would keep pair specific tanks if I was.

Now if I kept rainbow fish in there with the gourami I could see a problem occuring but the danios aren't nuts. They swim fast but not to the point of stressing out my gourami.

Thank you for your time. I understand your feelings towards my fish but I do take care of them and put their needs ahead. Next time though be sure to ask a question or two first.

My parameters are fine, my temps are fine and all is good.
By the way no fish needs an EXACT temp or PH level. It can differ by a point or two. We're creating an ecosystem here and there will be tiny fluctuations in them.

[mistersprinkles]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

First of all don't be a wimp and say "you're not attacking me" and not to get offended when you rightfully are attacking me by calling me inhumane.

Secondly, you just out right came attacking me. You didn't ask questions first. For an expert to just come out and NOT ask a question first tells me you aren't one. You do not know how old my fish are, how long I've kept them this way or if they are being moved to larger digs or not. I have done plenty of research and spoke openly on cichlid forums before I put my tanks together.

I know how large frontosa's get. I know how much room they need. I also know about cory cats as well as clown loaches.I know they'll be moved up in tank size or out soon. I also know how big my gold algae eater will get and what happens when it is that large. I have done my homework as well as worked in multiple pet shops tending to the aquariums.

I know my 20 gallon is a jumble currently but they don't harm one another. I don't see a stress problem with my danios and gourami. They do quite well together. I actually find the gourami to be one of the more voracious feeders. I am not trying to breed these fish. I would keep pair specific tanks if I was.

Now if I kept rainbow fish in there with the gourami I could see a problem occuring but the danios aren't nuts. They swim fast but not to the point of stressing out my gourami.

Thank you for your time. I understand your feelings towards my fish but I do take care of them and put their needs ahead. Next time though be sure to ask a question or two first.

My parameters are fine, my temps are fine and all is good.
By the way no fish needs an EXACT temp or PH level. It can differ by a point or two. We're creating an ecosystem here and there will be tiny fluctuations in them.

Actually I was polite but you've called me a wimp so now I will insult you back. You're a moron. And you're getting your back up. I'm sure you've had your fish for a long time. A lot of animals can survive incorrect conditions for a very long time. And yes, you can keep clown loaches at 80, and at low oxygen levels in an alkaline pH, but they will never reach full size, nor will they live their proper life span.

I didn't need to ask a question. Your post had idiot written all over it and so does this one. I feel for your fish, and for your tiny fragile ego. If you say you have a dog that you never walk, do I need to ask questions? No, I already have enough information to tell you're screwing up here.

BTW if you knew your rear end from your elbow you'd know an aquarium is NOT an ecosystem. It is a very basic scaffolding for one with many, many parts missing- especially nitrogen export and carbon production. Why do you think you do water changes? Said ecosystem can't even maintain it's own mineral balance or nitrogen balance.

Your clowns aren't in that african tank until they're bigger, they're in there until they die at the same size they are now. I'd put money on it.