Housing/husbandry for False Water Cobra?

[Graham85]

I'm looking for some info on housing false water cobras. I am wondering mainly about how moist to keep their enclosure and any other information anyone could give me.

[Chu'Wuti]

Hopefully someone with some experience with these animals will post soon for you, Graham. Do check your state laws regarding keeping venomous snakes if you haven't done so already.

[Joel La Rocque]

Everything depends on size!
Your habitat should be no shorter then 2/3's the snakes length. You should have a warm end and a cool end, the warm end should be kept at 85 degrees F. and the cool end around 75 degrees F. ambient. A large water bowl for drinking and soaking at each end preferred but 1 at the warm end is essential. Humidity of 50 to 60 percent is fine and upped to 85 to 100 percent during a shed with misting twice a day. A hide box at each end is vital to remove stress. The hide should be just large enough for it to curl up in with little space left over. After eating, a basking light should be added above the warm end to aid in digesting. The basking temp. should be 98 to 100 degrees F. for about two to three hours a day for 5 days after eating. If must not eat when in a shed cycle or handled. A red light is fine for viewing after dark as they can not see the color red and it appears dark to them. A vet check once a year is sufficient, also add a multi vitamin to its food once a month. It should be fed frozen thawed food only, avoid live prey. The height of the enclosure is not that vital but if you have a tall enclosure it will climb every now and then. The heat source should come from under (not in contact with) the tank, a heating pad kept on low will usually bring the temp up to 92 degrees + - . Remember to treat this snake as a venomous animal! because it is one!

Hope this helped Joel

[Will0W783]

Joel, you have a lot of experience with FWCs it seems. They are awesome snakes, aren't they? I've got a yearling, and he's just the coolest little guy. I use gloves to pick him up, but I do freehandle him. Maybe I shouldn't but he's never tried to bite me. I've heard contradicting things about their venom- some say it can be really bad, others say it's similar to a hognose snake. What have you heard?

[Joel La Rocque]

The venom is comparable under a microscope to most elapids, mambas, cobras etc. The problem is delivering the pay load. A yearling would be easy to get off your hand. One of the ones here is well over seven feet and weighs in at almost 8 pounds. If she grabs you by the neck, you have a real problem. Remember what I said about the Boomslang, in the late 1950's they were sold in pet stores. With their popularity in the Herp. world I believe it is just a matter of time before someone winds up dead as a result of a bite. I am never paranoid, with 57 tags to my discredit, I wish I were a little more so. Nothing is dangerous until it happens to the other guy and then it is to late for him. The Boomslang incident took place in England. I handle ours only when we get a call for venom and that is almost an impossible thing now unless it was to save a life or design an anti venom. Please be careful especially during a feeding response, when they smell food! anything that moves is fair game.

[Joel La Rocque]

Please excuse my post! I have been asked three times this week about the FWC and I should explain my earlier post. The venom of a FWC has the same components as those of elapids. It is known as a 3FTX venom or a three fingered venom. Most rear fanged snakes do not have a large enough reservoir to cause much of a problem should a bite occur. The Boomslang is different and its venom is similar to the venom's of a viper or pit viper. In the 1940's and 50's they were sold everywhere as pets. A Lab Herpetologist who's name I have forgotten was bit by one and laughed it off. The following day he was running late, his staff called to check on him and he said he felt fine and would be in within the hour. He never made it, he dropped dead of a massive hemorage. The first sign of trouble is when you brush your teeth and spit a few of them out in the sink! You melt!
Believe me, I am to old to ruin my reputation by filling you folks up with $#@*%#, Even a hognose possesses this type of venom but they don't bite for one and if they did, they can't deliver enough venom to cause much damage. A seven foot FWC or Mangrove snake is different. I know some will not believe me and that's fine, I want to get my point across to the intelligent people who have a future working with these wonderful animals. I speak the truth, count my fingers or look at my hands in general. I don't want you good people to have a matching set. Later Joel

[siz]

Joel I just wanted to say that your posts were very interesting to read...so thanks! haha
I think rear fanged snakes are truly amazing and I would love to work with these snakes in future..the far future. Mangroves (since you mentioned them) are awesome! They are on the list ;) Do you have any?

[Joel La Rocque]

Hi Siz:
No I do not have a Mangrove, there was never much (If any) demand for the venom, The only guy that sells them in the US that I know and trust is Bill Gillingham of Great Valley Serpentarium in California. He is a very reputable man who sells hatchlings.

Thank you for the kind words. Joel

[Will0W783]

Thank you Joel. I appreciate your experience and advice. I am and will continue to be, careful with my FWC. I work with him a lot so that when he gets larger he will be less inclined to bite. However I do not put my hands in any of my snakes' cages during feedings. That is just asking for trouble -venomous or not, they are going by instinct alone when food smell is in the room. I also have a hognose, and he's quite docile. I've had him about a year and he's never even hissed at me or my fiance. They are quite adorable, fascinating little creatures. I checked out your website- very impressed! You collect venom as needed for research and developing antivenins- how awesome and important! I also really like your attitude towards your snakes; you seem to truly understand and appreciate them. :)

[jparker1167]

i posted this on the other false water cobra topic so i guess ill post it here too.

this is the info i got from bryan when i asked about the venom of the false water cobra

yes and no. The toxicity is on par... which means it is fairly weak. Takes about 100 milligrams for a typical rattlesnake to kill. A big Hydrodynastes (I hate the common name false water cobra since it can't be a false anything that lives on another continent, Brasilian smooth snake is a better common name), will never be able to give that much yet alone deliver it. the composition is still fairly unknown as to which toxins are in there


it is no where near as toxic as a cobra or krait and you can quote me on that.

[jparker1167]

joel where did you get that the venom is comparable to elapids mambas and cobras? mambas and cobras are both elapids

[Joel La Rocque]

To most people, snake keepers included they see the results of a bite and equate what they see visually to a species of snake known to cause a similar type of wound, ie. Rattlesnake: Swelling, tissue destruction, abnormal Pk. results etc. For general discussion, I have no problem with that. The composition of FWC (Gigi's, Bicinctus,Schwartzi) Duvernoy's secretions when viewed under a scanning electron microscope shows a few other chemical fractions.
The fraction that causes the swelling and tissue destruction is active on the 38,000MW similar to Crotalus (but not the same as) Atrox. It is comparable to the Phospholipase A2 enzymes. This is (in my opinion) the only similarity between the FWC and any Crotaline venom to date. The actions that are not seen mainly because of the minute presence at this time, is the Muscarinic Toxins which act presynaptically on Nicotinic Acetylcholine receptors ie. Alpha Neurotoxins Type 1 and Type 2. These toxins act in the same manner as most neurotoxins found in Elapids. The Type 1 toxins are short chained amino acids having from 60 to 73 amino acids and four or five disulphide bridges. Type 2 have a "C" terminal extension which binds to Alpha 2 forms of Nicotinic and Acetylcholine receptors.
At present there have been few instances of prolonged contact bites from an adult FWC, this is not to say it will not happen in the future. You also must take into account the home range of the FWC. In Jungle regions, there are abundant cases of snake bites and deaths which go unreported. It is my opinion that if there were to take place a prolonged contact bite from an adult FWC, the slight appearance of swelling, Blebs, local pain etc. would be the least of the problems. There are sufficient quantities of neurotoxins within the secretions available to cause a full blown Elapid type envenomation if there is an extended length of contact between a human and a FWC. Note the length of time it takes a prey item to stop struggling once the FWC has embedded its rear fangs into the flesh? These effects are not caused by a Cytotoxin or a Cardiotoxin. Neurotoxins are present in the Duvernoy's secretions of FWC's.

The next complication we have is the fact that a vast majority of snake owners were sold Hydrodynastes Bicinctus, and the owners believe their snakes to be Gigi's! This has led to a vast debate as to what type of venom the FWC actually has. The two must be inspected side by side to note the difference in scalation and the length of the skull. Bicinctus tends to cause a more pronounced destruction of tissue at the bite site. In the Bicinctus home range, mice and short haired rats are the main prey. In the Gigi's home range these items are also taken as well as larger mammal's. The venom of a true Gigi's is less virulent to flesh with more systemic actions being noted of the central nervous system ie. Metallic taste in mouth, tingling along the hair line of the scalp etc. In either case it would be considered prudent to handle either sub-species with the same care as one would render to any venomous species of snake. No one with any amount of intelligence wants to be known as the Karl. P. Schmidt of the False Water Cobra world. I truly believe that it is not far off in the future when we will here of the first documented fatality as a result of a FWC bite. The findings of an electron microscope do not lie, all that is needed is for the right person to get tagged and my predictions will come to fruition.

[jparker1167]

well i talked to bryan fry (venom researcher) and his exact words when i asked him about your post saying the venoms are comparable under a microscope he said venom + microscope = fail ill ask him to come and post here. when it comes to venom fry is the one ill trust.

[Will0W783]

I looked at a picture of H. bicinctus, and it looked quite different than all the false water cobras I've seen. My FWC looks nothing like that picture of it. The head is all wrong. Maybe there are better pictures out there, but this is what I found (Note only the last picture is of my snake- the others I got off the web).

The first picture is of H. bicinctus, the second one of H. gigas, and the third one is of my FWC, which I firmly believe to be true H. gigas. What does everyone else think?

[Joel La Rocque]

Are you so gullible that you think Bryan Greg Fry actually answered YOUR post to him???God I found another one... Fry has several idiots answering for him on general questions, Try asking him a personal question such as (Is there anything I can inject to slow down my cancer). You will not receive a reply because his cronies do not want to get into the Dog house. This guy is all over the world and has his little band of followers posting his exploits to make him look like a big man to young IDIOTS!! God grow up, you are far from being important enough for Fry to take two minutes to answer your questions. Try Wolf Wooster, You might have a chance there, His fame has not gone to his head YET!!
As for me, I try and help kids learn the truth and to do things the right way, I take the time to answer my posts and frankly I could be helping some kid who wants to learn but I am wasting my time with you. This is the last reply and believe who you will, Better yet join the Greg Fry fan club and win an autographed photo to sit on your Grass snake tank!

[sassamagoo]

Jparker, you need to let it go. You've already decided you don't agree with Joel, no matter what he says. its been obvious on more than this post. Since that seems to be the case, just quit pushing it before you push him off the website. You know there may be other people who DO want to hear what he has to say without you jumping in every time to tell him why he's wrong.

If you can get Fry himself on here to give a different opinion, Awesome! Until then, please, quit starting arguments unless YOU YOURSELF know the answer PERSONALLY, from your own experience and research. Why ask questions just to disagree with every answer you get? Seems like pointless flaming to me.

Sass

[Will0W783]

I have no idea who Brian Fry is, and am not on anyone's side, I was just concerned about the possible mix-up between H. gigas and bicinctus and wanted to make sure that what I have is indeed H. gigas. I think you seem very knowledgeable and are a good member here.

[siz]

Kim - From those pictures, and the other pictures I have seen I would say H.gigas. Those pics aren't the best for comparison but I have seen other pics of you FWC and the biggest thing that stands out to me is it's head.

Joel - I'm a little confused. I don't know a whole lot about venom, your post (#12) was a bit confusing to me...what is the measurement MW? And what are the differences between the 'Types' of venom you mentioned(and the ones you didn't)? I'm trying to wrap my head around it, it's super interesting stuff and I'd love to learn about it.

jparker - Obviously you disagree with Joel but I would like to respectfully ask you to stop being so attacking. He seems to have the knowledge to back up what he says (in detail) while you are taking words from someone else's mouth and have no way to back it up. The statement "venom + microscope = fail" is extremely vague and I'm not sure if you are trying to start a fight or not. Can you tell us why it "= fail"? Genuinely curious...

[Will0W783]

I agree with Siz here. I am enjoying Joel's contributions, and dont' want to see him get annoyed and leave the site. Not everyone will agree with everyone else, especially with a sometimes touchy topic (I guess rear-fanged potencies can be touchy?) but there is no reason to constantly attack another member.

[jparker1167]

it was not a post that i talked to him on. it was on facebook. grow up lol thats coming from you? the person who tells people they are not able to keep a puff adder because they do not have more then 6 years experience handling hots but you have taken almost 2 bites a year for 17 years and another one bite a year for the next 30 or so years. you try to help kids learn maybe you should step back and look at your hanlding before you tell others how to do so. lol grass snakes huh whats wrong with those even tho i dont keep those. i keep venomous cobras gaboons puffs saw scales leventine vipers and have kept hots for around 5 years with no bites. how soon did you get bit when you started ? im pretty sure i would not want to learn from you. i have a friend that i talk to about hots and hes 50 years old and has kept hots for over 30 years and has taken 4 bites. had he had 200 adult venomous breeders. 100 where cobras. he also started keeping hots when he was 14 and started with puff adders. he didnt take a bite from a hot for 28 years after he started.

so you think fry's fame has gone to his head lol i guess you have never talked to him have you? he goes in king snake chat room now and i have never got the feeling that he though he was to good to talk to anyone. he has people answer for him lol where the hell did you get that maybe you should not comment on stuff you dont know about.

[jparker1167]

i have nothing against joel, but when he said the venom of the false water cobra was comparable to cobras mambas and kraits it didnt sound like anything i have heard about them. most people talk about them comparable to rattlers. not elapids. willow fry is a venom researcher.

[Will0W783]

Cool! I imagine venom researching must be really interesting. I don't really know that much about venom or its compositions, although I have a few snake books that go into the basics of it fairly well and I understand biochemistry, so hopefully I'll learn more about it. I'm just trying to understand the venom and the potency therein of my FWC a bit better. I got him because I thought he was a fascinating little snake ( I know he will get big and am prepared for it) and from what I read he wasn't fatal. I do hope I don't ever have to find out personally. He is quite docile now, and I handle him like I do my pythons and boas, albeit a bit more cautiously and gently. Jparker, thanks for all the help and advice on my Spilotes too! I really appreciate it. I moved him into a bigger enclosure now- he is in a 5'x2'x16" melamine and plexiglas enclosure. He does the coolest tail drumming whenever I open the cage or stand in front of it...lol..it's like he thinks he's a rattler or something. You need to post some pictures of your Spilotes-I'm dying to see it. I think they are one of my new favorite species. Cyclone is just such an awesome snake!

[jparker1167]

no problem man im glad hes doing well. no one has ever died from a false water cobra bite that i have heard of. they have a poor delivery, i would not let them chew on you tho lol. everyone reacts differently to venom any bite could become a problem.

[siz]

Have you guys seen the photos of the man who let his hognose chew on this hand? His hand is incredibly swollen and ... gross, pussing, etc. It was really bad. How can you be so stupid?? I can try and find the link if anyone is interested.

[Will0W783]

I would like to see that, just to see the extent of the damage- seriously wtf? He must be ******** to let any snake, let alone a (mildly) venomous one, chew on him. Dumbass.

[siz]

hognose snake bite (http://herpnet.net/bite/)
Not quite as bad as I remember it being. But this guy is a moron. Read the text, it says he let it chew on him for 3-5 MINUTES.

[Will0W783]

Total idiot! I would have immediately have gotten it under running water or pushed my hand back into its jaw to gag it and cause it to release. I have been bitten a few times by pythons and boas, but always it was a quick bite/release. I would NEVER EVER let a snake chew on me...seriously bad idea.

[siz]

Especially a venomous one.. :rolleyes:

[jparker1167]

i saw that pic before too, complete moron. i saw a artical about a guy that let a false water cobra chew on him also i believe they said he blacked out ill try to find the post.

[Joel La Rocque]

I answered the questions and hit send prior to reading what I wrote. I hit the stop tab and lost everything so here is the short version.
Please remember that I am at the BOTTOM of the venom chain just barely above the snake. I gather the venom and send it off to different Labs to be processed into what ever they are manufacturing. At times we get the venom sent back with the sticker "unusable" placed on it. I usually know what the problem was but I call anyway. Here is the lines that I usually get.
The venom did not have the proper number of sought after proteins on a milligram per milligram basis. For example lets say the manufacturer was designing an anti venom for all North American species of pit vipers. Like Crofab They need the venom from four species of snakes. The Eastern and Western diamondbacks are two, the Mojave rattlesnake is number three and the Southern Cottonmouth is number four. Even though I send them the venom's requested they must have the proper proteins by mass weight for the venom's to work. The Mojave Rattlers venom must be Type-A venom possessing high fractions of the acidic sub-unit. This protein has a molecular weight (MW) of about 2.500 Dalton's as well as the basic Phospholipase (PLA-2) toxin found in almost all pit vipers to be acceptable. Both combined make a potent neurotoxin with a MW of 38.000 Dalton's. One of the larger components of the FWC secretions is a neurotoxin with a MW of 38.000Dalton's. I see this on paper and I know they are talking about a "Neurotoxin" This is usually found in Elapids, Rear fanged Colubrids and a few vipers when in a state of Flux, which I believe the Mojave rattlesnake to be in at this time. For the two types of toxins to bind they must have a binding agent ie. Disulphide bridge or bond. A disulphide bond is a strong covalent bond capable of linking polypeptide chains in proteins together via an oxidation of the sulfhydryl groups of two molecules of Cysteine. In short, after being told this over and over again, I merely have to see the numbers of the components and the types found in the venom to know it is a neurotoxin. Nothing genius about it, just repetition and remembering the base element weights. All snake venom's have a certain number of neurotoxins, amino acids, proteins, Phospholipases A2's within their construction. In fact the acidic toxins found in the Mojave rattlesnake alone would not cause any ill effects on a human body alone. But when added to the Tissue destructive proteins also found in the venom they make the most potent neurotoxin to be found in any North American snake alive today. I saw the numbers and knew it was a neurotoxin. The proteins are extremely small fractions and are weighed in the unit of measure called "Dalton's" 1 gram (about the weight of an M&M plane) is equal to 6.022.173.643 plus 23 Dalton's or a million million billion Dalton's give or take a few. You will get a different weight if you use different methods of separating the protein such as by "Gel Filtration" or by "Ultracentrifugation" to name but two methods.
The bottom line is that I simply have picked up information over the years that has little to do with my work with snakes. I send off small samples of venom to be assayed and if the numbers are within the tolerance levels, Great! The sad part is that I like to give the right information when asked and at times it will not be viewed as correct by others. You are the one who must take the different answers and research them both and then decide which one to subscribe to. There is no such thing as a Genius or Expert when it comes to snakes or Toxins. Both fields are in their infancy and new components are being discovered every day making yesterdays fact a misnomer and now useless. Learn for yourself and if it sounds a bit off to you, it probably is. Who you believe is irrelevant, it is what you believe that will either make or break you. I believe no one, I look for myself and then decide.
I hope this straightened out the mystery of the FWC venom case. I still am animate about never letting any snake chew on your finger. I have a good story about that happening a few years ago but I will save that for another time.

Thanks Joel

[Joel La Rocque]

Bicinctis or Gigas? This snake has caused a lot of discussion over the past few years. I received mine in 2005 when I was asked to fill an upcomming order. I ordered Hydrodynastes Gigas and was sent two females. It took almost three months of collecting before I had enough Duvernoy's secretion to send off for an assay. It came back and I sent it off to the Lab that ordered it. The components were within tolerance so all was fine. The next year I filled I think three orders and had no complaints. I had the opportunity to purchase another FWC from a fellow who was being shipped over seas and could not take it. It did not look exactly like the two I had so I started a little leg work to find out exactly what I had.
OK the FWC has five sub-species according to most scholars and only two sub species by others. The two are Bicinctis and Gigas. Bicinctis was founded by Herrmann in 1804 and Gigas was discovered in 1854 by Dumeril, Bibron and Dumeril. Schultzi and the other two were found some where in between. Now lets say there are only the Two. Bicinctis is found in the areas of Colombian Guyana, Amazon Venezuela, Amazon Brazil, Roraima Brazil, Para Brazil, Amapa Brazil, Guyana, Surinam and French Guyana. That is 9 large provinces covering an incredible amount of territory. Hydrodynastes Gigas is found in Amapa Brazil and French Guyana only. The rest is supposition by me only. Considering the large land mass covered by Bicinctis I believe that a large majority of snakes owned (Including those owned by me) are Bicinctis and the few odd colored species seen only on occasion are Gigas. There is absolutely no genetic material on file that I could find to distinguish the two. Perhaps in the future there will be a definitive answer but for me I am going to call mine Bicinctis as I will no longer be selling their venom, which I have always sold as Gigas. The main thing for me is that the proper components were there regardless if I got them from a snake or from a skunk so who cares?
What you call yours is up to you but think about the number of people gathering the large number of snakes ordered by the pet and venom trade and then think of how many snake would have to be living in the two areas where Gigas is found. Could there be that quantity of animals living in a small area? Joel

[Will0W783]

From what I've seen on Fauna and Kingsnake and other places I look for snakes, FWCs are almost always CBB, so I think it is possible that they are descended from Gigas that were imported generations ago.

[Will0W783]

Joel, do you happen to have any pictures of the Bicinctus you have? I'd be really curious to see how they compare to my FWC, as the only picture I found of Bicinctus online wasn't a very good quality.

[Will0W783]

I also need to get some better pictures of my FWC, Rogue. right now I only have one of him in a Rubbermaid container and it doesn't show his face or the really cool pearly peach on his sides.

[Joel La Rocque]

Hi friends:
Willow you have a valid point on the CBB and I would really love to any other information you might come across. I have a 35MM camera and I will get the pictures you want and send them to you, It will take a few days, Film is old fashioned and cumbersome but it is what I am use to so I guess I will stick with it.
I wish I had studied this subject a few years ago because it is fixed in my mind now and I hate to let things go with out knowing what is right. It never really mattered as long as it possessed the right components but now it is a real challenge.
Please keep me informed. Thanks Joel

[Will0W783]

No problem, thanks for your input Joel. I'm awfully curious- I did find some better pictures of Bicinctus, and I guess I could see how some would be confused, but do they hood like Gigas? All the hooding pictures I've found are of Gigas, at least claimed to be.

[venomdoc]

>Are you so gullible that you think Bryan Greg Fry actually answered YOUR post to him???God I found another one... Fry has several idiots answering for him on general questions,

Yes, my cloning endeavours are going swimmingly. I now have a legion of mini-mes. A small but deeply disturbed following.


> Try asking him a personal question such as (Is there anything I can inject to slow down my cancer). You will not receive a reply because his cronies do not want to get into the Dog house.

Obviously you are a bit pissy because I didnt answer one of your emails. Sorry about that mate. I try to answer as many as I can while still maintaining some faint shadow of a life.

As to how to slow down cancer, the only snake toxins potentially applicable in this regard are the disintegrin peptides from viper venoms but these are lab-based findings, none have emerged from clinical trials to-date

>This guy is all over the world

The only accurate statement in your entire delusional ramble

>and has his little band of followers posting his exploits to make him look like a big man to young IDIOTS!!

righto

>God grow up, you are far from being important enough for Fry to take two minutes to answer your questions.

Entirely correct. I much prefer floating on a cloud above Mount Olympus thinking deep thoughts about my big toe

> Try Wolf Wooster

Might have more luck trying Wolfgang Wuster

> You might have a chance there, His fame has not gone to his head YET!!

Give it time. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. But it rocks absolutely, too :: insert evil mad-scientist cackling here ::

>As for me, I try and help kids learn the truth

By posting woefully inaccurate information regarding the relative toxicity and venom composition of Hydrodynastes gigas?!

> Better yet join the Greg Fry fan club and win an autographed photo to sit on your Grass snake tank!

First ten new members get a free copy of the 2010 nude calendar. Tropical June is of course a much longer month than Arctic December!! ;p

Cheers
Bryan

============
Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry

[Joel La Rocque]

Hello folks:
I sent a fax to the Institute of Butantan in Brazil asking them to identify the two. I would think that since this animal lives in their back yard they should have the correct answer? As soon as I get a reply, I will send it on. At the moment I am in excruciating pain and am going to take a pill and Lay down. As soon as I get it, I will send it.
Bye for now.
Joel

[jparker1167]

hey Mr. fry nice to see you here, is that really you bryan fry ?

[venomdoc]

Yes it is we
We are the Bryan
Resistance is futile
You will be assimilated
;p

[Will0W783]

ROTFL! Well this is great having several venomous experts on Ssnakess! I hope to learn a lot from both of you, but I doubt I will ever have anything more venomous than my FWC, I just don't trust myself with deadly snakes. lol. Bryan, what's your take on FWC venom?

[venomdoc]

Its been equated as being on par with rattlesnake venom. Which thus makes it relatively quite weak. Typical rattlesnake venom takes about ~ 100 milligrams to kill a human. There is no way even a huge Hydrodynastes would be able to produce let alone deliver that much. The venom composition is also poorly known but based upon bite observations and taxonomical closeness to Heterodon (for which there is a bit more information) I'd say the venom is most likely to be rich in CRiSP and kallikrein toxins. The latter certainly would account for the localised pain and swelling.

I would not put Hydrodynastes gigas in the 'dangerous' category, unlike snakes such as Dispholidus typus.

Cheers
The Bryan Collective

[Will0W783]

Thanks Bryan. I don't consider him like a rattlesnake, but I do not wish to be bitten by him. I do handle him, but use gloves to get him out. He's quite calm and docile, save for a bit of cage defensiveness, hence the gloves to get him out. Hopefully he will stay that way, as I don't wish to be bitten by him when he's full grown, but if I were to get bitten, I wouldn't need to go to a hospital right?

[venomdoc]

The odds of a life-threatening or even medically significant bite are quite low. Not to say they arent quite capabe of slicing you up nicely though! Watch out for that feeding response!

[Will0W783]

Yeah. I am quite careful with him. He's only about 2.5 feet long right now, but an alert little fellow. The only other snake I have that is so alert and watchful of me is my tiger rat (Spilotes) - he stares me down whenever I enter the room..lol

[MegF]

I always use hooks to remove my hydros from their cages to be certain they know it's not feeding day :) My female the other night being ravenous actually bit herself, the tub edge and probably would have nailed me if I hadn't had her on the hook and tailed. For the most part though, I find them very easy to work with and quite docile. These animals have been handled regularly since hatching though.

[Joel La Rocque]

I truly believe that constant contact, even if is only face to face from behind the glass is one of the most important aspects of NOT becomming a bite victim. Most disagree with me however that is normal, Snakes do recognize the people who feed and care for them. The one problem with a FWC as you mentioned is the feeding response! Of all the animals I have had, the FWC is tops when it comes to attacking its meal and anything connected to it. Truly a Noble snake Joel

[MegF]

I will agree with you there Joel. My snakes absolutely know me and are completely different when I handle them as opposed to someone else. While they are still docile, they tend to be a bit more nervous and will often come back to me if I'm standing nearby. I think the feeding response of the FWC is one of the reasons I like it so darn much. I don't think I've ever had a snake smack it's "lips" like one of them during eating. If they were a person, they'd be the fat redneck on the couch with the beer and chicken wings! It's truly amazing how fast they eat food.

[Will0W783]

Lol. If you like ravenous eaters, you should get a tiger ratsnake...mine is a speed-eater. I've never seen a snake chomp food down as quickly as this guy does. He just goes nuts too- tail drumming, flipping around, it's quite fun to watch. He eats f/t, but still attacks it like it's alive. From what I've read, tiger rats are one of the quickest, if not THE quickest, eaters of the snake world- Youtube has some good videos of them chowing down.

[MegF]

I could only get pictures of my cobras eating as my durn phone doesn't have video. I'd say the hydros would probably equal the Tigers. My female literally took down a medium rat in about 30 seconds. It's the "lip" smacking and smashing of the prey around the tub that makes me crack up. I'm surprised they don't sit back and belch at the end of it all! They eat f/t too. I can't imagine if the sucker was alive. They chew up the poor thing!

[Will0W783]

Lol, yeah, my FWC Rogue goes into full-body convulsions and twisting/thrashing about and charging the mouse. He wont' eat f/t for me, so he gets a live mouse. I'm trying to get him onto f/t- any pointers?

[siz]

I'd love to see a video of those guys chowing down if either of you can get one :)
Kim, why don't you try strating off with a F/K and see how he takes that?

[Will0W783]

Ok. I will try that. I just feel bad for the mice- he's so violent about it...

[MegF]

I've never had an issue getting any snake to take f/t. Hot, hot hot and offering with tongs if they've never had f/t before. I heat directly in the hot water changing it often so that the rat is very hot. Dry the fur with paper towel and then offer on tongs. If you have to, wait a little longer before attempting to feed the first time. My hydros were so hungry after they shed that they probably would have eaten a plastic mouse if offered. I don't need to use tongs with my hydros at this point though. I put the rats in there and then put the snake in the tub. they find it immediately. For fun I'll grab one with tongs to watch the hydro "chase" it with an open mouth across the tub. Crazy animals!

[Will0W783]

Thanks Meg- I will try again with him. We always heat the rats/mice up very hot in water and dab them on paper towel before offering to any of our snakes. I have over 30 snakes, so feeding time gets interesting- all those heads pressed up against the front of their tanks asking for food..."me next, me next!!". So far, Rogue seems wholly uninterested in f/t but I'll keep trying, maybe a little hotter next time. I feed every other week.