Breeding vs Morals and Ethics

CDN_Blood · 04-03-12, 06:40 AM

Oops...poll didn't kick-in...please stay tuned...

Ethics and morals play a role in breeding reptiles, particularly in snakes. While a lot of people will readily create intergrade* or even hybrid** snakes, it's not really done with other herps such as lizards or frogs. This begs the question of why are people so liberal about it.

The boiled down root of that question leads us to a matter of ethics and morals. Make no mistake, these two things are not the same, so let's break it down so we're all reading from the same page...

Morals define personal character, while ethics stress a social system in which those morals are applied. In other words, ethics point to standards or codes of behaviour expected by the group to which the individual belongs. This could be national ethics, social ethics, professional ethics, or even family ethics. So while a person’s moral code is usually unchanging, the ethics they practice can be other-dependent.

Since hybridizing animals is universally considered unethical by the zoological and scientific communities, I cannot present that aspect in a poll. That leaves us with a question of morals, and since I’m a curious kinda guy who enjoys reading statistics, I thought I’d poll those willing to respond to gather some stats on this debate. Oh sure, we’ve debated it endlessly in other threads, but this one will give us some numbers to consider (I hope). So…

My question is this:
Do you consider creating intergrades and/or hybrids a moral or ethical issue?

Give yourself time to consider the factors before you vote, and consider the definitions of intergrade and hybrid outlined below when voting. Remember that you don't have to add any blurb about why you voted as you did if you wish to remain anonymous.

----------------------------
*intergrade: the process of merging into each other in a series of stages, forms, or types (e.g. Morelia intergrades are different subspecies of Morelia family bred together to create a new form of the original over time, such as Jaguar Pythons)

**hybrid: an animal (in this case) resulting from a cross between genetically unlike individuals (e.g. ‘Bateaters’ are a hybrid resulting from breeding a Burmese Python to a Reticulated Python)

Lankyrob · 04-03-12, 06:45 AM

Nive way to get us all thinking!!!

My PERSONAL thoughts are intergrades are much more likely to happen in nature than hybrids and therefor for people to breed them in captivity is fine.

Hybrids MAY happen in nature but it would be a very rare occurance and PERSONALLY i cant see a hybrid necessarily breeding to produce a new generation. So whilst i like the look of some of the hybrids that i have seen, i dont consider it morally right to do.

Both my views are based on MY moral stance, i cant comment on the ethics of it as i dont have enough contact with breeders to know what that "society" thinks.

youngster · 04-03-12, 06:48 AM

Rob basically took the words out of my mouth.

PS Todd very well written

CDN_Blood · 04-03-12, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

...Hybrids MAY happen in nature but it would be a very rare occurance and PERSONALLY i cant see a hybrid necessarily breeding to produce a new generation...

I believe that most hybrids are sterile, so I don't think that's a problem. It also explains why they don't survive as a continued species in nature if it does happen

Brently · 04-03-12, 06:54 AM

I would say in a perfect world where the pet trade and the natural world would never comingle that both intergrades and hybridization is okay. However back here in reality where we all live I would say that intergrades should be practiced carefully. And hybridization should be very strictly limited to different species of the same locale and even then I would say it is a slippery slope.

Xanafein · 04-03-12, 06:56 AM

Well, Intergrades and hybrids are both something I have an Extreme interest in

I don't consider the Odds of things happening in the wild a Factor In a closed environment where everything is Regulated, Feeding, Humidity, a hypersterile enironment ect. ect., that said what I do Consider is Quality of life.

Intergrades can always lead a healthy happy life in their environments, and so can most hybrids, so my thoughts on this matter are as follows

If the animal is healthy and happy, I don't care how its existence came to be

KORBIN5895 · 04-03-12, 07:03 AM

Oh does anyone else feel the heat??? If not it's coming.

As far as intergrades go I feel as long as there basic genetics are similar ( like bci and bcc) I have no issues with it. I realize this leads us to the debate of if snake "A" is really a pure locality or not.

As far as hybridization goes that also goes against my moral code. You wouldn't breed a cougar to a tiger or a rat to a degu. So why a burm to a retic or a bcc to an atb? They are very different in many physical aspects so why force those changes upon them? What if you produced something the size of a bcc but it had the habits and tendencies of an atb? That would just be whack for the port buggar.

shaunyboy · 04-03-12, 07:10 AM

being honest i have no issues with either,as long as its NOT producing snakes with health issues

intergrades i would not have included as they can and do happen in the wild

re morphs
again as long as their are not a lot of health issues,then i have no problem with it

cheers shaun

CDN_Blood · 04-03-12, 07:55 AM

Hold your thoughts, folks...our trusty Mod is going to add the poll for me 'cause a BDU error cause me to not included it <shakes fist at self>. While the logic behind your posts is always great to have, don't forget to go back and vote if you think the poll options are applicable. Thanks everyone, and a special thanks to Moderiffic Infernalis for saving the day yet again

So far, I have to say the quality of response posts is quite high. I'm impressed that folks are concerned about these things and that they've clearly given it some careful consideration. Keep up the good work! I'm so curious to see the numbers, lol...

**Aaron_S** · 04-03-12, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDN_Blood

I believe that most hybrids are sterile...

This isn't true in the reptile world as it's been proven again and again. In particular the borneo bateater (retic x burm) have constantly bred with one another or back to one of it's parents lines. Hybrids in general are sterile outside the reptile world.

Lankyrob · 04-03-12, 09:59 AM

I cant vote as neither option matches my thoughts

CDN_Blood · 04-03-12, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

This isn't true in the reptile world as it's been proven again and again. In particular the borneo bateater (retic x burm) have constantly bred with one another or back to one of it's parents lines. Hybrids in general are sterile outside the reptile world.

Does that make it OK in your opinion?