Snake Killing Snare for sale online!!! - Page 7

snake_bro · 03-08-05, 09:22 PM

Diverdude; it was my opinion that others were wrong because it is not my own. now put that next to your own statement and we should have to sides of the same blanket. if youve never heard that, niehter have i, i think i just made it up. what ever, back to the topic. wait scratch that some thing else real quick like, DAVID U SUCK. okay, now bact to the topic. yes everyone is in an agreement that the ignorant need to be brought up to speed, or at least make them go fast enough that they arent like the insanly old people that are still driving on the highway although they drive at 45 mph when the speed limit is 70. not true with some old people, just an example, no offense intended. i try, and i f anyone else would itd be appreciated, but the best thing we can do is to help the wannabe herpers who will turn into us who will also educate the ignorant. but we still need to work on the educating. see if you can tell people some thing about snakes at your workplace at a break, like li=unch or a smoking break, and maybe bring some snakes with you. tell them everything you can, encourage them to get one, so long as you encourage them to learn and properly care for them first, do not rush anyone into it. by increases our population (herpers) we increase everything, yes it has some drwbacks like the owners who continue to be ignorant in there caring of their snake, but websites like this and all the others also help with that.

Herpkingdom · 03-08-05, 09:44 PM

i have a from reading that

HeatherRose · 03-08-05, 10:11 PM

Quote:

what ever, back to the topic. wait scratch that some thing else real quick like, DAVID U SUCK. okay, now bact to the topic.

I will not say this again. Grow up and stay on topic. Bashing members will not be tolerated here. I will not hesitate to shut this thread down if this happens again.

galad · 03-09-05, 12:07 AM

No offence Heather, but I really dont think shutting down the whole thread is necessary.
Most people on this site are able to interact with others in a mature and respectful manor. Those who cannot act accordingly should be the ones getting punished.
You know who you are so just stop the childish nonsence, I wouldn't doubt it if you were a child. If you cannot play nice with others......
Do we really have to resort to that sort of thing?

peace

ws

Slannesh · 03-09-05, 06:47 AM

This is gonna be a long one, I can tell

I was gonna just let this one slide cause it really does seem like a no brainer for the most part, but then certain people; (i'm sure you all know who you are) decided that giving attitude was more fun than bothering to do any actual research and insulting people who actually know what they're talking about. So here I am

First off, let's be a little realistic. Yes the device in question is at best dangerous to use and the informed among us know that decapitation is not a humane method of euthanizing snakes. We must, however, keep in mind that the general population does not know this and when faced with a possibly venomous snake in their kid's sandbox they really woudn't care.

That being said, it's targetting a pretty niche market isn't it?

I'm in complete agreement with BW in his opinion that education is our most useful tool in situations like this. I spend some time doing school sessions myself and see first hand the interest and in some cases fear that people have of snakes. Screaming and moaning is considerably less effective.

And now a factual pet peeve;

You cannot murder animals. You can kill, maim, end the life of or euthanize them but you cannot murder them.

Dictionary.com defines murder as

"The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice."

I understand that the term 'murder' is trying to illicit an emotional response when used in this manner but I personally find it pretty offensive to place equal value on an animal and a human life. Don't get me wrong. Animal lives are very valuable but you just cannot compare them in general terms as 'on par' with a human life.

I've touched on this in the past, but for the benefit of the new people who this will be addressing i'll repeat myself. Respect is not automatically granted, it's earned and can much more easily be lost than gained. When your first dozen posts are poorly written, difficult to understand and generally abusive of other people's ideas, opinions and experiences you'll very quickly find that you get little to no respect here or anywhere else in life.

Calling fellow herpers traitors simply because we don't buy into your mostly emotionally charged and fact light rhetoric does not paint you in a good light snake_bro. In fact, it quite effectively relegates you to the role of fool or "fringe group". If you want to be taken seriously i'll give you a little advice.

1) Take the time to go over posts and edit them. This means having a quick look at the spelling and grammar, (paragraphs are your friend) but if it's not your strong suit run it through a spell checker. This isn't an english class no, but you can't be taken seriously if no one knows what you're trying to say.

2) Try to avoid personal insults just for the sake of making insults and keep the emotions in check.

That second one is going to make some people laugh because I can be quite the caustic ******* when i'm posting to certain people but I do at least try to make factual observations when i'm being insulting

For the record I think the device in question is dangerous, barbaric and for the most part sadly unnecessary. If people would take the time to become even passingly familiar with the local species of fauna and keep their yards half decently clean they would dramatically reduce the # of encounters with snakes in general.

Well i've been nice for a change

But that can be quickly remedied if good advice is not taken. Have a good one all.

joey · 03-09-05, 08:49 AM

Slannesh, ever heard of a 'murder of crows' ? It's like saying a flock of seagulls. I love that--- a murder of crows.....so cool. Would be an excellent band name.

...nice post, btw

Slannesh · 03-09-05, 09:06 AM

Yeah, I know about that definition as well, but that's a whole different kind of murder and doesn't really have any relevant context to the discussion at hand, which is why I didn't mention it

joey · 03-09-05, 09:08 AM

my bad. I know it was off topic. oh well.

galad · 03-09-05, 11:18 AM

Dont worry my last off topic post in this thread. Although this has kinda been the theme ever since a certain someone came into the discusion.

Great post slannesh. Hopefully people will take your advice.
One thing I dont agree with is the fact that people have to earn respect to get it. Thats the probleme with our society everyone thinks that way. "well if he/she doesnt show me any respect. Why should I show him/her any?"
If everyone is waiting for everyone else to show respect before they can, then were not going to get very far are we?
Why can we not try to show everyone respect the first time we meet them. At least give them the benefit of the doubt. Dont judge people by the way they look, it rarely works out. I've met some really goofy looking people in my time. But you know what, I gave them that chance and most of the time everything worked out.
If you meet them and show respect right away chances are that person will mostly likely notice, and will want to act in the same manor. Why would anyone want to give you a chance if you show them rudeness, or dissrespect.

So if any of you have been having problemes with people around you, look at how youve treated them in the present and the past. Even slight things like tone of voice can scare people away.

Remember we only live once. Do you really wnat everyone to think your an *** in this life. There are no second chances. Most people are not very willing to change their opinion of someone, no matter what they try and do to make it up.

peace

ws

Gary D. · 03-09-05, 11:29 AM

Good post Slanesh (my personal value on human life aside, that's just another OT departure that this thread doesn't need).

I'm just going to throw a couple of thought of my own take them as you will.

Quote:

see if you can tell people some thing about snakes at your workplace at a break, ... and maybe bring some snakes with you.

"High I'm elder Snake- bro, and I'd like to give you a copy of our magazine..."

Sorry, now to the point. Here's a phrase we should be familiar with , " a little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Education is important, sure no argument there. but I will add ONLY if done in an appropriate setting by responsible and knowledgeable individuals. I've seen skin heads argue that it is their right to walk arround in public with a boa on their shoulders, and justify their actions as educating the public about snakes. GONG!

Herpetoculture needs educators not activists (teachers, not preachers).

Now to the original issues, The product is indeed a poorly planned product and can inded be detrimental to it's market users (nervous middle class suburbanites). Who else is going to buy an garden implement with one purpose, that a shovel, an axe or a shotgun will do. Certainly not those whom are the primary threat to snake populations. Fact is the product will disappear quietly from the market like so many other "late night infomercial" type products. Petitions are only usefull for demonstrating that there is a number of individuals (accountable and verifyable by name, signature, age of majority and contact information) in a local demographic who are in favour or opposed to an idea, or proposition, and in a psudo-political arena. Beyond that they are a complete waste of time (especially to an individual with a product to market and an audience for that product), and a widespread online petition is even less usefull in any context, with no political or legal weight.

Gary D.

snake_bro · 03-09-05, 07:34 PM

the whole point of nringing snakes with you is to help people either conquer their fears or to prove that snakes arent slimy. ever heard of "hands on" teaching? you can know everything there is to know about some thing, but there is always the possiblilty that everything you learned is wrong. you can read some thing or listen to someone telling you a snke isnt slimy, but they can ALWAYS chose to not believe you. hands on is the best form of teaching, its a proven fact. jst wondering but was my woodshop teacher being an activist when he told us what the powertools where used for, and how to use them, and all safty precedures, and then told to go out and use them to make little boxes? what im saying is along the same lines. just a point.

Slannesh, the thing about paragraphs are your freinds, hilarious. every post i made was done very hastily, most mispellings are typos (me not being the best typer) and i threw away all meaning of proper writing when i saw some of the posts here.

My opinion on this subject is extremely strong. so if i have bashed you in my passionatly typed posts, i am sorry. I normally try not to, but when your trying to get all your ideas out at once, it comes out as well, along with everything else, that to the readers may seem to be incoherrant rantings. and in areas are.

although a petition may not be effective, it takes less than a minute of your time. if you havent yet "signed" it, please do so, the only thing that can come from it is good, it cant do any harm, if it does anything at all.

Yes, if the random people who would buy this product and intend to use it joined these sites, it would be free advertising. but that simply doesnt happen. everyone on these forum type sites based on reptiles LEARN about them. in that way we are educating these people, just by posting something here or there or helping some one with their new addition. so, what are the chances that they leave this site and buy this snake snare, and use it? very little im sure, so i believe that this "free advertisement idea is invalid, but that is only the opinion i come up with by reading yours and think about it. if there is a factor in this i have missed, please by all means, correct my idea.

Slannesh · 03-09-05, 07:56 PM

Snake_bro:

A MUCH better post there. Glad to see that you aren't the type who's too big to take good advice when it's offered.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that passion is a bad thing. It's not. But passion only works when people already agree with you. An empassioned speech will do little if nothing to convert someone who does not think like you do.

You have a very good point about 'hands on' learning which is exactly what myself and BW were promoting. But we have to be careful with this as well. Taking a few herps into a classroom to talk about them when you're been invited is one thing, strolling down the street with a 9' boa constrictor on your shoulders scaring little old ladies does nothing to educate the public, it only reenforces the stereotypes that so many people already believe. I've spent some time doing eductional talks with my herps at local schools and other members of our local community are much more active in that area than I am. While some people are unable to get over the irrational fear, many can and do at least come around to realize that snakes aren't the evil dangerous things that they are portrayed to be.

I can get pretty worked up about stuff I care about too, it's part of being human so there's no shame at all in that. My whole point really was that rushing posts without rereading them and speaking only from the heart without taking the time to think your points out just muddies the issue. I do know from experience that online petitions hold very little weight with most people, lawmakers especially. Taking the time to write a letter on good old fashioned paper is a much better way of getting the attention of your MP or Member of Congress.

I really think that education of the general public is a much better way to go than spending the time and energy trying to stop the use of these devices directly. Wouldn't it be better for everyone involved if the snake in question didn't need to be killed? If a person knew it was a harmless gartersnake instead of a rattlesnake they would be much less likely to kill it in the first place. If no one 'needs' to kill the snakes then the need for such a device dries up and you achieve your goal and everyone is better informed because of it.

A much better solution in my opinion.

Rikki · 03-10-05, 01:46 AM

Thats horrible

Herpkingdom · 03-11-05, 07:20 AM

What everyone is now talking about is education. Perfect! I couldn't have planned it better if I tried. Education and ideas about spreading the education is exactly the by-product I was looking for what I posted about the snare.

The petition and boycott is the catalyst to get more people to help in educating the general public about snakes and other herps as well as the other exotic animals (and inverts) that many of also keep.