My snake just might have regurgitated!!! - Page 5

Vanan · 01-25-04, 09:08 PM

Quote:

AlexPan, no offence, but why did you even ask for help if you're going to act like this? You have people with a lot of experience telling you something and you're doing everything in your power to try and prove them wrong with "theories" that hold no water. What's the deal? Learn how to take advice..especially when you ask for it. Your animals will thank you for it.

I don't think it's about not taking advice but more of finding out why he should take someone's advice over something which makes sense to him. Man! I knew I should never have posted in this thread!! lol!

marisa · 01-25-04, 10:17 PM

I agree with that Vanan. Questioning is good. Especially when its based on intelligent questions. But Alex's past posts, and current posts lead me to believe he has been reading a book of snake husbandry none of us have ever heard of.

But that's why I keep replying with explanation. Hopefully it will be taken as advice to help his snake, and its *not* meant to knock him down personally.

Marisa

ohh_kristina · 01-25-04, 10:27 PM

I totally agree about that. Asking questions is always important. However, there comes a time when you have to learn to take advice from people that have been there and done that, you know? But I guess some people just have to figure things out for themselves. The only bad thing about that is sometimes that means that animals suffer for it.

AlexPan · 01-25-04, 11:00 PM

Will, my first recomendation for you is read a few of my threads back to answer the quote "I'l make 50% sand and 50% aspen shavings and see what they will perfer." my 2nd recomendation is if you still cannot find the answer, see my first recomendation.

AlexPan · 01-25-04, 11:07 PM

Well said Vanan!

Marisa, i knoe you meen the best for my anymals and sank you for youre opinions but, all i was trying to see is, if some one could really give me a good enaph explanation on how can the sand get stuck in the snake's stamach.

Also i would like to say that every one have made a great impact on me (to the good side), and i'm not gona argue any more, and ones i'l get an email back from my good friend, i'l post it on here.

joshm · 01-27-04, 04:14 PM

Alex, fix the temperature there way to hot and to cold and I would bet the farm that thats why he regurged. You should keep it around 84 on the hot side and 78 on the cold side, not the temps in which you keep it at. I must say why ask for the advice if you have to put up a fight over it, this thread got so long with all the people telling you the same thing and you took that long to relize that sand is no good. have fun

Cruciform · 01-27-04, 08:31 PM

Hiya Alex,

I know it sounds strange that sand could get caught up inside them but the digestive system of a snake is quite basic compared to ours.

If you look at horses, they are unable to regurgitate, and when fed moldy hay or water at the wrong temperature after a hard run they can suffer serious gastrointestinal distress (colic). If they roll around, they can herniate the bowel and die.

So far you haven't had any serious problems with your snake until now. The majority of advice offered has been to avoid sand just to be on the safe side. Instead of comparing the comfort of sand versus a new substrate, maybe try comparing two non-sand substrates for your snake. He still gets a choice and you don't have to worry about sand impaction.

While people are talking about substrate, I've got a couple of question

Can the ink on newspapers do any damage? Should you try to get paper with canola based inks?

And with heating from below, has anyone run into trouble with that? When I took in the garter snakes I found out that they have a natural tendency to burrow to escape heat. So if the heat is below they will tunnel down to the bottom and cook themselves. Do any other species do that?

Siretsap · 01-27-04, 08:45 PM

You know snakes did not evolve to become so fragile with their eyes...
They shed because they grow and to renew their skin and eyecaps...
I too had some problem with some leopard geckos who got sand impaction. But not all my leopard geckos had this problem.

All I have to say to Alex is to watch the snake and if he does see some impaction, remove it from the sand.

I doubt the sand scratches his eyes that much and all, he sheds every once in a while so even if he does get a scratch, his eyecap will be renewed after the shed.

As for the tongue flicking, I don't know if you ever touched that tongue, but it's quite dry and no snad gets stuck on it when he flicks it. If it were the case, all the desert snakes would be dead of impaction cause, let's face it, they flick theyr tongue more than 20 to 30 times a minutes...

And Marisa, his fur theory isn't all that out of the blue, the fur will clean some parts of the system. And some reptiles will actually eat the sand by themselves to help grind the food in their stomach or because they lack in certain nutriments...

Anyhow, I just found that you were being quite rude to him (talking about Marisa). I am sure you had some theories at one point that turned out not to be true, we all have...

marisa · 01-27-04, 09:24 PM

Rude to him? How so? What am I supposed to do? No offense to you at all Sirestap, but this person is not a "newbie" and has had AMPLE time on the internet to investigate any theorys about sand prior to housing an animal on it. I am not in the habit of worrying about humans feelings over the internet, but the conditions animals are kept in. Hence the reason I will not sugar coat. I also offered alternatives, detailed reasons why the risks exsist, and I wished him good luck and SPECIFICALLY told him it was not a personal attack but for the good of his snake, which thankfully, he responded that he understood. How much nicer does one have to be?

"And Marisa, his fur theory isn't all that out of the blue, the fur will clean some parts of the system. And some reptiles will actually eat the sand by themselves to help grind the food in their stomach or because they lack in certain nutriments..."

Um yes that's exactly why I clearly told him earlier in the thread... I agreed with that part, but I did not agree with him saying only non fur eating animals get impaction. Thought I was crystal there, apparently not.

As for the eyes, fine lets say the risk is ZERO. That still leaves the fact that its been proven reptiles living on sand can have major buildups over months, or years which can lead to impaction.

"If it were the case, all the desert snakes would be dead of impaction cause, let's face it, they flick theyr tongue more than 20 to 30 times a minutes..."

No not all of them but how many live 10 years out of each clutch in the wild? Tons die from things like impaction, poisioning, predators, parasites, injury, etc. Sorry I don't find that sort of outcome a "success" in captive animals. Which is why all risk factors that I can remove, are removed. It's that simple for me. One thing has a risk, another does not....gee what should I choose.....let me ponder....oh wait...the one with no risk....again that's what I do, and that's where the advice I give is based.

"I am sure you had some theories at one point that turned out not to be true, we all have"

Of course! For sure! But once I see facts pointing out where I was wrong, I don't just risk an animal to try and see if i am really wrong or not. If its obvious there is a risk to the animal when putting my theory in practice, that sort of defeats my entire theory of keeping a captive animal healthy in the best conditions possible, unless I just don't mind "hoping" something doesn't happen or go wrong.

"All I have to say to Alex is to watch the snake and if he does see some impaction, remove it from the sand."

Watch for what? Regurg? Its already happened. Sure it could have been anything but what else should people be watching for? In my collection if I had questionable husbandry methods in practice, a regurg out of the blue would certainly make me change my ways in hopes that is the root of the problem. Its a definite start IMHO.

Anyways I apologize that you feel I was rude, but I definitly stand by my opinion that sand is just a risk waiting to become a reality, and my posts.

Marisa
P.S. sorry about cutting up your post in the wrong order, I read how i read and comment when and where i think of something lol.