Leucistic X Normal Results?

[Clownfishie]

You're welcome Alice I'm sure that she'll make some lovely babies for you, she's a very pretty girl

Snow and Martin -- honestly, I'm a little confused now about the whole co-dominance thing -- so I asked someone who knows a bit more about genetics than I do, and this is what he said:

"I can't really explain co-dom traits using leopard geckos as an example...

I would suggest going to a ball python website, or the ball python forum and look for pics of Pastel Jungle ball pythons (Co-Dom trait het for Super pastel), and super pastel pics.

Basically with the pastel trait (het) you will see something in between wildtype and the "super" trait (homo).

A pastel ball python has more yellow and blushing than a normal, but a super pastel has extreme amounts of vibrant yellow and blushing.

The big difference between co-dom traits and simple recessive traits is that co-doms phenotypically show the het form of a trait, while simple recessive hets will look like wildtype.

As far as comparing co-dom to polygenic traits... like carrot tail. The main difference is that co-dom traits are controlled by one single loci, while polygenic traits are controlled by many different genes.

You can have hets for co-dom, no hets for polygenic.

Hopefully this helped some, if you have any other questions let me know."

[SnowSnake]

Who is that someone you talked to? I'd like to chat a little with him.

[MartinW]

Clownfishie, I don't know if you know yet (I can't tell from your last message), but this is what I know co-dominance to be: If a trait is co-dominant then even if it is only present as a het its effects are still visible in the animal. If it is present in both alleles then it is even more visible in the animal. For example, I think hypo is co-dominant. If it is present as only a het, then it has a few spots. If it is present on both alleles then it has even less spots. Basically, the degree at which it is visibly present is none if the trait is not present, in the middle if it is present once, and the most visible when it is present twice. On the other hand, if the trait is just a plain recessive trait, then it must be present on both alleles in order to be seen visibly in the animal, otherwise it's not visible at all.

Does that help?

Martin

[Clownfishie]

Snow -- his name is LeosAnonymous, from the "other" site...

Martin -- that kind of makes sense, but have you ever seen such a thing as a "het" for hypo? (in leos anyways). I know I haven't...

[MartinW]

I might be incorrect, but I think a plain hypo is a het, a super-hypo is a homo. Anyone know if this is correct? I'm just guessing based on the terminology (ie. the "super" prefix).

Martin

[Linds]

Martin,
Yup. Animals displaying co-dom/dominant traits in their first degree are "visible hets"... as both bred together will produce 25% normals, 50% "visible hets", and 25% "supers".

Alicewave,
Yup' you've got a pretty little normal. Last year we had a lot of babies pop out with those patterns, a few with the full jungle tails as well... in the end they all end up looking pretty much the same It is my experience that jungles are something that just pops out from time to time... maybe someone with more experience will be able to give you more insight into that.

Clownfishie,
I *believe* you are correct in saying that there are no co-dom/dom traits in leopard geckos. There are however selectively bred traits that act in a similar manner (high-yellows, hypos, etc). First generation breedings will still retain a fair amount from their parents, but this can still be bred down, unlike a true colour or pattern morph.

[SnowSnake]

Ok, I didn't want to make a big post to explain this in detail but now I will since we are now 4 in this discussion.

Here is what co-dominant genes do:

You can NOT have a "het" for a co-dominant gene. A co-dominant gene is "as good" as a normal or "wild" gene on the locii, this meens that when on the locus (where there is place for 2 genes) you have 2 normal genes you get a normal leo. When you have a hypo (for example) and normal gene the hypo gene is "as good" as the wild gene so it will show up a bit on the leos' pattern. When you get 2 hypo genes this is when you get a big difference, since you dont have the wild gene to "put" some black spots on the leo the hypo drasticly reduces the amount of black spots.

Het or Heterozygous (in recessive genes only) is when you have a recessive gene with a normal gene on the same locus, by having one of both the wild type which is homozygous will take over the appearence of the leo and this leo will only be carrierer of this gene and will be able to pass is on to his offsprings.
If 2 recessive genes get on one locus then since there are no wild type or co-dominant genes to "disturb" them (recessive genes) the leo will show that recessive trait.

To come back to the co-dominant genes if you want a little practical definition for a co-dominant gene you could say that the modify the wild type gene without replacing it. "super hypo or super tangerine" is only a bigger modification of the wild type gene.

If you use these deffinitions that makes "hypo" and "tangerine" are co-dominant traits.
You cannot determine what "type" of offspring you will have with co-dominant traits like you can with recessive genes.

Hoping I havent confused anyone too much, have a good night!

later,
SnowSnake

[Linds]

Easy to understand page w/punnett squares on <a href="http://newenglandreptile.com/CareInfo/GenCoDom.html">Co-Dominant Genetics</a>... also has two links on the page for Simple Recessive genetics and Double Het as well