What do you think...?

[Tim_Cranwill]

Market schmarket! Get whatever animals you can afford that YOU want to breed and breed them. THAT'S the way to start. Don't think about money or sales or ANYTHING except keeping the animals. The rest will work its self out over time.

That's MY 45 cents...

[bighillreptiles]

you are right Tim. Good post and no slamming, cool

[damzookeeper]

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
Market schmarket! Get whatever animals you can afford that YOU want to breed and breed them. THAT'S the way to start. Don't think about money or sales or ANYTHING except keeping the animals. The rest will work its self out over time.

That's MY 45 cents...

That is so true! If you get what you like best and breed that you will be happy with the outcome and enjoy the hobby much longer.

[Jeff_Favelle]

You don't have a hope of making any $$ off that, and the babies can be difficult to get rid of. Regular Ball Pythons are a dime a dozen these days.

Hmmm...must be a different market out there (even though 90% of my sales are Ontario), because I cannot keep up with the demand for normal female Ball Pythons this year (or last year). I could have sold 200-300 this year at $150 each. Easily. People are stocking up on normal females like its going out of style. Normals males? Yeah hard to sell. They are pets, and that's it. But to say that you can't make money from normals is wrong. I could sell normal female babies all day long.

[Jeff_Favelle]

downfall to the pastel morph, I am guessing in 2 to 3 years, it will be worth no more than 400$. But still, you sell of the pastel babies you got and you get back in your money.

And what if it does drop to $400? You will STILL make money. And LOTS of it. If you have two breeding males by then and 25 females (normals; not EVEN including the female Pastels you held back) and you are on your game and you get 16 of those females to give 6 eggs each. That's 96 Ball Pythons, 48 of which should be Pastel. So if they are $400 each that's $19,200!!! Add in the normals wholesaled out and you're up over $22,000!!! just for TWO measily racks of Ball Pythons. Yeah, sooooo hard to make money. That's what the whole Ball Market is. A GIANT money-making machine. Get in or stay on the sidelines. I'm in just to fund my other snake habits (addictions?), but there's a handful of people making SERIOUS money at it. But even if you do it half-a$$ed and just make the $22,000, and say your regular job nets you $35,000 (average), all of a sudden, you are making $57,000 income and that's above the average in Canada. Not bad for two measily racks of snakes and maybe 1/2-1 hour per day of work.


LOL!

[rwg]

I wouldn't set up a breeding business on a loan, especially if you have no experience. What if your animals dont produce for a couple years? What if you lose your male breeder? Well...at least you'll still have your loan. Too much risk for me.

rg

[Linds]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Normals males? Yeah hard to sell. They are pets, and that's it. But to say that you can't make money from normals is wrong. I could sell normal female babies all day long.

LOL do you have magic bps that pump out sex-specific eggs? Most people are interested in sub/adult females over babies as well. I know it took me months to sell my female, as well as I've seen the same hatchling females over and over in the classifieds. Males are being given away for free, or offered for peanuts, in the classifieds. Other kinds of snakes do not have problems being sold 'as pets', since there isn't an absolute flood of them out there. You walk in to expos and all it is is balls, leos, and beardies from wall to wall, with a few odds and ends interspersed.

[Ptindy]

I agree Linds. It's too bad that some breeders are flooding the market with certain herps trying to make the big bucks. Let other people breed the species and help pay for their addiction. I don't even want to know how many carpet pythons have been introduced to the market in the last few years.

Mike

[Ron]

Originally posted by Linds
LOL do you have magic bps that pump out sex-specific eggs? Most people are interested in sub/adult females over babies as well. I know it took me months to sell my female, as well as I've seen the same hatchling females over and over in the classifieds. Males are being given away for free, or offered for peanuts, in the classifieds. Other kinds of snakes do not have problems being sold 'as pets', since there isn't an absolute flood of them out there. You walk in to expos and all it is is balls, leos, and beardies from wall to wall, with a few odds and ends interspersed.

Funny, at the last TARAS show all of my normal males sold first and I had a few people who were looking at them earlier who asked if I had any left at home. I don't expect to sell any normal males over the internet, in the future I'll just save them for shows. Still my 8 at $80 pays for all of my rats for the year.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Most people are interested in sub/adult females over babies as well.

For 90% of the people that bought a Pastel or whatever from me, they all would pretty much say, "hey, I'll grab 2 or 5 normal females while I'm at it". A LOT of people don't like to buy adult animals. They like to raise them from the very beginning so they are raised properly and there's no surprises. I'm one of those people.

I'm not sure why some people have trouble selling female babies. I'm just relaying my experience. Since 1995, I have not had ANY trouble selling ALL my female normals within 2-3 months of them hatching.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I don't even want to know how many carpet pythons have been introduced to the market in the last few years.

Who in CANADA came even close to flooding the market in Carpets? Nobody in my opinion.

[gonesnakee]

In reguards to Carpets IE: Jungles there were this season 2003 males being offered for $100 each & females for $140 thats yearlings folks, they were just plain janes but they were available at those low prices. So the market goes up & down but a lot has to do with the individual marketing the animals as well. Some people refuse to budge on prices until they are overrun with the previous years offspring with more hatching. Maybe they should have considered a reduction or some wholesaling prior to the next season? In reguards to BPs it pleases me to see so much Captive Bred available, it keeps wholesalers from bringing in farmed & WC crap & makes them support the local market instead & offers the public a better quality specimen(s).

In answer to the orginal post I'd suggest not running wanted ads for animals that you have no means of which to obtain. Breeders soon get tired of replying to wanted ads never to be responded back to or to find out the person inquiring isn't even seriously considering a purchase at that point, but is just "Window Shopping" IMHO wait until you are actually ready & know what you actually want before you start posting want ads for animals which you have no funds to even buy or you aren't even sure about wanting. Sincerely Mark

[Linds]

I know many breeders prefer subadult to hatchling, simply so they do not have to wait for them to reach maturity = more money sooner. If buying hatchlings is so popular, why is it that in just about every wanted or trade ad, breeders always specify subadult/adult females or females over 'such and such' weight?

I too am just going on my own personal experiences, as well as observation of others. They are so very different from what you are saying... why so contradictory?

[gonesnakee]

I'll have to agree with both Linds & Jeff. I know exactly what Linds is saying, but most of those people are out to try & produce ASAP whereas others such as Jeff & myself prefer to know who produced the animal & have it in our care ASAP as a hatchling. That way you are in control of how it is raised its whole life with the exception of the first few weeks. I know breeders who have refused to buy stock older than 2 months even directly from the breeder as they don't trust anyone but themselves when it comes to rasing future breeding stock whereas others don't even care as long as they can make them babies sooner over later. Mark

[Ron]

I also get a little skeptical when a breeder is willing to release a sub-adult or adult female. Gotta wonder why the breeder is getting rid of it; maybe it throws slugs, maybe it never even takes.