Piebald Amazons ...anybody got any by chance?

[JuliusSqueezer]

I asked Ben Siegel, who I consider pretty knowledgeable about amazons about his thoughts. Here ...I'll paste the email...
"Brett
i beleive it is some sort of pied--i have had a good number come in like this, and it is far too common than to be just scarring---usually it is white surrounded by orange, and in very small areas-Ben"

I have to wonder though...with as large of an amazon breeder/dealer as he is, why, if he has had "a good number" he has never bred them and proved it out nor did he mention that he tried and it didn't work out and where are they now? He certainly jumped all over the paradox trait so I know he has at least some interest in proving out some sort of amazon morph...I've been kinda pondering this email for a few months now and scratching my head. But anyway...

[Beardonicus]

Maybe someone was very interested in them, so he sold them? I dunno.

[crucified]

julius... about the no other boas having piebald.. i have seen pics of and heard of piebald rainbow boas.. columbian rainbows i believe...

[JuliusSqueezer]

cool...got a link? I don't doubt it...I've just not been able to find anything.

[Derrick]

hehe maybe he's hording them all which is why you cant find any

[JuliusSqueezer]

LOL...He promised that he isn't... but who knows?

[Jeff_Favelle]

Pied Epicrates??? You mean, like this?:

[Piers]

a good friend of mine says it takesabout 20 generations of inbreeding snakes before you run into problems. He got up to 16 generations and all the snakes were fine.
Piers

[JuliusSqueezer]

That's pretty cool Jeff...thanks!

Piers..Define fine. I doubt your friend is qualified to run snakey IQ tests, behavior comparisons, or would even know what underlying non-lethal health issues may exist...Snakes dont talk to us and tell us what is wrong and they hide conditions and symptoms well. Mere survival isn't fine. There is still a quality of life factor to consider. And once again...inbreeding any morph does not usually stop when the original breeder says it stops. Offspring that is sold off usually continues to be inbred elsewhere...and the offspring sold off from those places continues to be inbred...each new breeder thinking ..."bah...what's a few generations of inbreeding going to hurt?" anyway...inbreeding isn't even up for discussion. You can believe what you want to about it being "fine" but I have seen way too much evidence otherwise and will never be any part of such a project...By the way...I know a guy who is a raging alcoholic...He drinks like a fish from sun up to sundown everyday. He can not even guess at the last time he was ever sober (at least over 5 years ago...and he drives his car everyday...somehow he has never wrecked. So does this mean that drunk driving is "fine"?

[crucified]

thats the one jeff... i have the pic on my comp.. i didnt want to upload it since i forgot where i got it.. and with all the slack ppl have been getting for posting a pic that isnt there own.. i didnt want ppl jumping down my throats...
very cool looking snake i must say..

[alex_33]

Personally I see absolutely no problems with inbreeding, becuase there are some species of reptiles, such as the Komodo Dragons, which are on islands, meaning that every Dragon on that island must be related in some way, becuase no new dragons could come into the gene pool. I believe the problem that we see with deformities today are due to the fact that animals in captivity that are born with physical and genetic deformities where they wouldnt last more then an hour in the wild are kept alive, allowed to grow up and eventually reproduce and make more "deformed" babies, which we also allow to grow into adults and continue to reproduce.

[JuliusSqueezer]

Alex...Just because something happens in nature sometimes does not mean it is what is best for the animals. For all we know, komodo dragons living today are inferior animals to their ancestors. Nature does not always provide the best for it's creatures and shallow genepools have been proven to be the cause of many extinctions and dieoffs.

[Invictus]

For all YOU know, Julius, your animals are inbred. For all you know, any animal you breed them to might have come from the same bloodline as the one you currently own. I could buy a blood python from someone in BC, and another one from someone in Ontario, and not even know that they came from the same bloodline. Even if you have fricken WILD CAUGHT specimens, they could be related too. You don't know.

And you going out saying that you will end up with brain damaged snakes shows your complete lack of understanding with how the genetics work. And you can speculate all you want, the FACT of the matter is, as long as you are not pairing up snakes with weak genes, inbreeding has NO ill effects whatsoever for many, many generations. I'm all for outcrossing wherever possible, don't get me wrong. But to be so militnatly opposed to inbreeding only a single generation, well... you better get ALL of your snakes genetically tested before you breed ANYTHING, because I can almost guarantee you that there are a very limited number of bloodlines for any species in captivity.

Secondly, if what you have is a "piebald", then I have a pied colombian rainbow too. This makes me VERY happy, as she may already be a world record size, or close to it. (She's 5'8", which is at the very least, abnormally large, if not close to a record.) Here's a pic of her missing scales - she has 2 such spots on her body (Look at the mid-section right above the head):



Thing is, I'm pretty sure it's NOT a form of piebaldism, it's just a birth mark kinda deal.

[crucified]

ok ken.. i'll ship you out my male now.. we gotta get some babies and inbreed out that pied..
hehe
very nice crb

[Beardonicus]

Now THAT looks like a scar to me...see how the normal colored scales are raised up around the white ones? Thats what happens with scars......Julius' snake has NO scale damage.....its a pied. That Rainbow has a scar.