Snakes ARE affectionate - Page 11

sophiedufort · 04-24-15, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eminart

Interesting. But, that's a non-peer-reviewed article about how reptiles might be a little more intelligent about how to obtain food than we previously thought. That's not our topic here. Nobody disputes that finding food is a natural behavior for reptiles.

I am pasting here my reply to Lady_bug's comment, as I believe it is relevant to your comment as well: "With respect, it is well known that any intelligent being is capable of emotion. Intelligence is defined as the capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc. While this may be limited and primitive in reptiles, and by no means comparable to other species, including humans, it doesn't make it any less plausible."

Nuxodom · 04-24-15, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

Experience to experience then: I keep Amazon tree boas. They are very defensive bordering on aggression. If i shut their heat off for a while they don't move as fast. They don't strike as much. That has nothing to do with me. That's the temperature change affecting their behavior.

Of course. Such snakes - like the Emerald Tree Boa and Green Tree Python are not great animals for handling, but are quite beautiful (I've always wanted one myself, but, wont get one due to their aggression).

jjhill001 · 04-24-15, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sophiedufort

With respect, it is well known that any intelligent being is capable of emotion. Intelligence is defined as the capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc. While this may be limited and primitive in reptiles, and by no means comparable to other species, including humans, it doesn't make it any less plausible.

Yeah but you only need one of those things to be considered an intelligent being. Capacity for learning and understanding is much different than grasping truths, facts and meanings. Heck I'll even give them the ability to recognize an individual potentially. But when push comes to shove that isn't affection.

**lady_bug87** · 04-24-15, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuxodom

Of course. Such snakes - like the Emerald Tree Boa and Green Tree Python are not great animals for handling, but are quite beautiful (I've always wanted one myself, but, wont get one due to their aggression).

My green tree is handleable.

Nuxodom · 04-24-15, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

How do you know they've lived full lives and in excellent health? What are you comparing them to to determine these parameters?

Research. Books, research papers estimating the length of the particular snake's lifespan in years. Experts testimony of the snake's lifespan. Regular vet checkups.

jjhill001 · 04-24-15, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuxodom

Hmm. I've never experienced this...ever. My snakes are out for extended periods of time quite often with no adverse repercussions whatsoever, and all have lived full lives being in excellent health. No lethargy, no health issues...hundreds of snakes, decades of handling.

I guess I'm just lucky.

Could it be you are handling your snakes in areas that match their requirements. In theory you could hold a corn snake in a 79 degree Fahrenheit room at 60% humidity indefinitely if it would eat while you held it. I think this one is on a species by species basis.

sophiedufort · 04-24-15, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

You speculate about everyone who posts. You speculate that people think low or don't care for their animals because they don't agree with you. You continually come across as a hypocrit. You ask everyone to treat you in a way you aren't willing to treat them. No wonder you've had people push against you.

You say you're curious about others opinions yet you started this thread by saying you know it's divided. Why come for more other than to get antagonize? You have yet to post anywhere else than this thread and 1 other.

How do you know they've lived full lives and in excellent health? What are you comparing them to to determine these parameters?

A divided topic does not necessarily mean antagonism, unless people make it that way. I was looking forward to civilized opinions, and I got plenty of them in this thread. As I said, I respect them. Why do you people assume that having a different opinion is antagonizing? What is this forum for, if I should be afraid of stating my opinion in a civilized manner? Did you create it just because it makes you feel good to patronize everyone? Who's the hypocrite here?

Nuxodom · 04-24-15, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

My green tree is handleable.

That's great! Maybe I'll rethink getting a young orange one.

sophiedufort · 04-24-15, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjhill001

Could it be you are handling your snakes in areas that match their requirements. In theory you could hold a corn snake in a 79 degree Fahrenheit room at 60% humidity indefinitely if it would eat while you held it. I think this one is on a species by species basis.

In my case too, although I am handling my snakes extensively, the handling area matches their requirements, so they do not suffer as a result. They are perfectly healthy and content. I take them to the vet twice a year, and the feedback that I receive from the vet is excellent at all levels.

Nuxodom · 04-24-15, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjhill001

Could it be you are handling your snakes in areas that match their requirements. In theory you could hold a corn snake in a 79 degree Fahrenheit room at 60% humidity indefinitely if it would eat while you held it. I think this one is on a species by species basis.

Could be. I don't take my snakes into extreme cold or heat for lengthy periods of time (I've been "reminded" by several snakes with a quick bite when it was too cold for them, lol).

jjhill001 · 04-24-15, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuxodom

Could be. I don't take my snakes into extreme cold or heat for lengthy periods of time (I've been "reminded" by several snakes with a quick bite when it was too cold for them, lol).

Yeah I hate seeing that. Went to the Cleveland Reptile Show in December. Guy walks in with a ten foot burm around his neck. What a jerk I kept thinking.

Edit: it was 3 degrees out.

RAD House · 04-24-15, 10:33 AM

What the op is trying to say is maybe we don't understand the reptile brain as much as we pretend to. Personally I know I own reptiles my own enjoyment solely, but I agree that there is a chance people under estimate the capabilities of the creatures.
Aaron I understand lady bug may be a long time members or even a friend but if you are giving the op a warning I think you should extend the threat of consequence. Most of her posts have been pointless and antagonistic, but that is just my opinion.

**lady_bug87** · 04-24-15, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

What the op is trying to say is maybe we don't understand the reptile brain as much as we pretend to. Personally I know I own reptiles my own enjoyment solely, but I agree that there is a chance people under estimate the capabilities of the creatures.
Aaron I understand lady bug may be a long time members or even a friend but if you are giving the options a warning I think you should extend the threat of consequence. Most of her posts have been pointless and antagonistic, but that is just my opinion.

.... interesting

Nuxodom · 04-24-15, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjhill001

Yeah I hate seeing that. Went to the Cleveland Reptile Show in December. Guy walks in with a ten foot burm around his neck. What a jerk I kept thinking.

Edit: it was 3 degrees out.

Yikes! THREE degrees?!? I'm sure the Burmese LOVED that...sheesh. Seems like the guy just wanted to show off his big boy.

SoPhilly · 04-24-15, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sophiedufort

With respect, it is well known that any intelligent being is capable of emotion. Intelligence is defined as the capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc. While this may be limited and primitive in reptiles, and by no means comparable to other species, including humans, it doesn't make it any less plausible.

Mmmm... the ability to reason and the capacity for emotion are definitely thought of as two separate systems in psychology... and I believe in neuroscience as well.