New addition : 2015 Super granite checkered garter - Page 2

ARCH3R · 05-05-15, 10:23 PM

Yes definitely. Sorry, generalization on my part I'm not always the best at writing down explanations. You're pairing obviously does create the super form, I just can't spell out the gentetics w/o knowing if it's recessive, codom or incomplete dom and the chromosome pairing.

Irregardlessly (my favorite of all the made up words) that is one gorgeous snake! I do have a question about garters. Ever since I saw a picture I've wanted a san francisco garter, but who doesnt. I see ads for neon blue and red stripe garter snakes. Are those real? If they are real, then is it that locale or a different one?

ARCH3R · 05-05-15, 10:55 PM

[QUOTE=ARCH3R;961226]Yes definitely. Sorry, generalization on my part I'm not always the best at writing down explanations. You're pairing obviously does create the super form, I just can't spell out the gentetics w/o knowing if it's recessive, codom or incomplete dom and the chromosome pairing.

Irregardlessly (my favorite of all the made up words) that is one gorgeous snake! I do have a question about garters. Ever since I saw a picture I've wanted a san francisco garter, but who doesnt. I see ads for neon blue and red stripe garter snakes. Are those a different locale? I thought san francisco garter was an untouchable dream like the indigos.

Albert Clark · 05-06-15, 06:56 AM

[QUOTE=ARCH3R;961229]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARCH3R

Yes definitely. Sorry, generalization on my part I'm not always the best at writing down explanations. You're pairing obviously does create the super form, I just can't spell out the gentetics w/o knowing if it's recessive, codom or incomplete dom and the chromosome pairing.

Irregardlessly (my favorite of all the made up words) that is one gorgeous snake! I do have a question about garters. Ever since I saw a picture I've wanted a san francisco garter, but who doesnt. I see ads for neon blue and red stripe garter snakes. Are those a different locale? I thought san francisco garter was an untouchable dream like the indigos.

No! I thought you explained your view quite clearly and I understood where you were at with it. Like I said I certainly could be wrong in the way I explained it and maybe this female granite is just a granite het pastel. I really am not sure. I know I popped her yesterday as a female when I previously thought it was a male. Lol.

Machala2012 · 05-06-15, 06:10 AM

seems like a beautiful accident :P

Albert Clark · 05-06-15, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machala2012

seems like a beautiful accident :P

Thanks! It really was unexpected.

Obsidian_Dragon · 05-06-15, 08:24 AM

Hmm. Does the granite mute the yellow of the pastel? Because the super pastels (sans granite) I've seen are more obviously yellow. Even the hets are, as babies.

ARCH3R, granite is only visible when homozygous. Pastel is...co-dom, sort of? Het babies are visually different from normals, in that they are far more yellow, but mature into the normal olive coloring. Homozygous or super pastels are visibly yellow as adults.

At least, that's my understanding of it.

Albert Clark · 05-06-15, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obsidian_Dragon

Hmm. Does the granite mute the yellow of the pastel? Because the super pastels (sans granite) I've seen are more obviously yellow. Even the hets are, as babies.

ARCH3R, granite is only visible when homozygous. Pastel is...co-dom, sort of? Het babies are visually different from normals, in that they are far more yellow, but mature into the normal olive coloring. Homozygous or super pastels are visibly yellow as adults.

At least, that's my understanding of it.

Well, thanks for that. This girl is a tanned color with the black granite hashes (as you can see). She does appear to be the same color as when she was born. I guess time will tell. Most of the granites I have seen are a off white color with black hashing unless they were albino granite checkereds who are yellow.

Thanks.

Albert Clark · 05-06-15, 08:57 AM

Thanks for shedding some light on the genetics though.

**Aaron_S** · 05-06-15, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Thanks for shedding some light on the genetics though.

Np. I can do more but it might get more confusing for readers LOL.

ARCH3R · 05-06-15, 12:32 PM

Obsidian- gotcha it's recessive and probably codom. Snake genetics are crazy aren't they? Mammalian traits are so much more visually identified. Multiple colors is codom, one color is incomplete, recessive or dominant but can easily be identified by the babies. With snakes it's a bit of a craps shoot at times. Look at the platinum gene on retics lol.

Obsidian_Dragon · 05-06-15, 01:20 PM

Here's a super pastel (and in the background, a normal):

Photo was from the kingsnake ad where I got my little guy, so the snakes and photo belong to Brad Chambers, not I.

Here's a baby het pastel:

This IS my snake, and my photo.

~8 mos later you can kind of see how he's greened up a bit:

ANYWAY--that's why I was asking if it was a super pastel for sure as well as granite, because I want to know what granite does to the yellow! If anything. I've kicked around the idea of breeding these guys now and again, and couldn't find much about the interactions of the two.

I'm fascinated by the pattern along the neck of your little girl, there. Casual googling doesn't show that on other granites.

**Aaron_S** · 05-06-15, 01:29 PM

Okay if it's known as a "super pastel" then it usually denotes it's an incomplete dominant trait. The "pastel" version is technically the "het" of the super pastel.

Therefore, there cannot be a "het pastel" unless it's recessive and the "pastel" would simply be the morph and there would be no super version.

To make things more confusing you can consider the pastel "het for super pastel".

Albert Clark · 05-06-15, 03:21 PM

This is the updated pic of the super granite. Look at the head markings and patterning along with the coloration.

pastel checkered 66% granite checkered x pastel checkered 66% granite checkered

**Aaron_S** · 05-06-15, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

This is the updated pic of the super granite. Look at the head markings and patterning along with the coloration.

pastel checkered 66% granite checkered x pastel checkered 66% granite checkered

We need a lesson in genetics.

1. As stated earlier, it can't be "het" something and also have a "super form". It denotes there's a "regular form". So either they are hets or are granites.

2. You no longer have 66% het granites. You have 100% het granites. They have proven to be carrying the gene.

We use 66% or 50% when trying to identify what babies may be carrying what genetics in a litter/clutch. It means that's the LIKELIHOOD of them carrying the recessive gene.

How do we get 66%? Glad you asked.

When breeding a 100% het x 100% het (animals that look normal but carry the desired gene) you have this break down of babies:
25% granite
50% het granite
25% normal

Because hets and normals look the same there's no way to officially tell them apart until breeding occurs. So we call them 66% since you have a 2 in 3 chance of them carrying the granite gene.
Once they breed and reproduce babies that carry granite their moniker changes from possible het to "het".

If I can breed one granite checkered to just any checkered and get granites then it's an incomplete dominant gene and they no longer can be "66% het granite".

Does this make sense?

Albert Clark · 05-06-15, 04:15 PM

That is understandable to me . Are you saying that the parent (sire) her father, is also no longer a 66% het for granite and he is 100% ? I understand the daughter being 100% . Is it both of them or just the dam?