Oh my god - Page 11

Jendee · 02-27-13, 05:50 PM

I kinda agree that the insults and digging into his personal dealings or assumings of his personal dealings is not necessary and not helping anything. I think focusing on the animals and finding a way to either help him help them or help them should be the only focus. I think the more this guy is called names and such he is just going to shut out help, close his doors then what, then it becomes more invasive with authorities (probably already has) and now you brought bad media to the herp world. As they already say that we keep are animals in horrible conditions this will just confirm there thoughts.
Not by any means saying he should be left alone but there is a more positive way to go about this...

TucsonRES · 02-27-13, 05:51 PM

The "personal attacks", semantics, snide or sarcastic comments do not belong on this thread. This isn't about anyone proving anyone right, wrong or superior. This thread is about the deplorable conditions these animals are in and trying to do something about it.

The he said/she said is irrelevant to the issues here.

The pictures that Erica took, the video that Charlotte took on Saturday (which D&M scheduled), the interviews with Dan Krull on Herp Nation and Jason from The Daily Reptile News and even the video response posted on D & M's behalf (which showed David on the video) yesterday are all the proof that should be needed to make up your mind.

Personally, I have kept RES and aquatic turtles for 13 years and take in surrenders but I am just starting to get into other reps. I was excited a week ago to find these forums to gain knowledge and be able to ask questions of people with more experience than I have, but after observing some of the behavior and attitude here and on other threads, I'd rather be smothered in honey, staked to an ant hill AND have a bottomless metal cage containing rats sitting on my torso with the top being heated by a propane torch than ask something and get flamed, abused or demeaned by somebody for asking for help or using a poor word choice.
That's not to say that everybody that has posted on here is like that and I have met some really nice people here that I will pm instead of posting.

KORBIN5895 · 02-27-13, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TucsonRES

The "personal attacks", semantics, snide or sarcastic comments do not belong on this thread. This isn't about anyone proving anyone right, wrong or superior. This thread is about the deplorable conditions these animals are in and trying to do something about it.

The he said/she said is irrelevant to the issues here.

The pictures that Erica took, the video that Charlotte took on Saturday (which D&M scheduled), the interviews with Dan Krull on Herp Nation and Jason from The Daily Reptile News and even the video response posted on D & M's behalf (which showed David on the video) yesterday are all the proof that should be needed to make up your mind.

Personally, I have kept RES and aquatic turtles for 13 years and take in surrenders but I am just starting to get into other reps. I was excited a week ago to find these forums to gain knowledge and be able to ask questions of people with more experience than I have, but after observing some of the behavior and attitude here and on other threads, I'd rather be smothered in honey, staked to an ant hill AND have a bottomless metal cage containing rats sitting on my torso with the top being heated by a propane torch than ask something and get flamed, abused or demeaned by somebody for asking for help or using a poor word choice.
That's not to say that everybody that has posted on here is like that and I have met some really nice people here that I will pm instead of posting.

I look forward to your pm's.

Jendee · 02-27-13, 06:43 PM

I just watched the most recent youtube video (some of the things the narrator or guy video taping said made my jaw hit the floor) it sounds like to me they know absolutely nothing about reptiles!! nothing!! with a side of being lazy/possibly overwhelmed with husbandry/responsibilities

Jeepers · 02-27-13, 07:58 PM

Right off that bat:

"They don't need UVB... because they have adapted to the normal light bulb. It also gives out the same amount of heat. "

... Absolute idiots... It's not about heat. That's the absolute last reason UVB, in specific, is so important. UVB light reacts to pigment in the skin as a chemical reaction for vitamin D3. This vitamin is so important because it takes calcium and turns it into usable chemicals that make up bone matter. Not getting D3, either through diet or artificial lighting, can cause problems like Metabolic Bone Disease. Regarding diet, as far as my research has informed me, it's insectivores and vegetarian reptiles that don't get a sufficient amount of D3 in their diet, hence they absolutely NEED the UVB lighting. They don't just 'adapt' to it. That's just stupid.

sonoranreptile · 02-28-13, 12:07 AM

Just to clarify about the monitor story that I told you about a few pages back. It was a black roughneck monitor, not exactly common in retail, but was purchased at the pet store where I work and have worked since 1998. He (David @ D and M) refused to admit he had the lizard, then when caught with evidence that he did have "a" black roughneck said it wasn't the same lizard, then when confronted with a photo showing the distinguishing scar and witnessed by a friend actually being at their "facility" he wanted $300 as a re-homing fee. And, after discussing this with my boss and the owner of the pet shop, the reason David from D and M stopped going into our store was because they were CAUGHT STEALING FEEDER RODENTS FROM US.

Been dealing with them on and off since the turn of the century, even before they started their rescue, they were cheap when it came to purchasing proper husbandry items and always skimped where they could. In my opinion based on 14 years of retail pet store work, people that go for the minimum on reptile care, seem to end up with sick or neglected animals. I know it sounds pretty basic, but they are exotic for a reason.......

Jeepers · 02-28-13, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonoranreptile

Just to clarify about the monitor story that I told you about a few pages back. It was a black roughneck monitor, not exactly common in retail, but was purchased at the pet store where I work and have worked since 1998. He (David @ D and M) refused to admit he had the lizard, then when caught with evidence that he did have "a" black roughneck said it wasn't the same lizard, then when confronted with a photo showing the distinguishing scar and witnessed by a friend actually being at their "facility" he wanted $300 as a re-homing fee. And, after discussing this with my boss and the owner of the pet shop, the reason David from D and M stopped going into our store was because they were CAUGHT STEALING FEEDER RODENTS FROM US.

Been dealing with them on and off since the turn of the century, even before they started their rescue, they were cheap when it came to purchasing proper husbandry items and always skimped where they could. In my opinion based on 14 years of retail pet store work, people that go for the minimum on reptile care, seem to end up with sick or neglected animals. I know it sounds pretty basic, but they are exotic for a reason.......

Yeah, when it comes to having healthy reptiles, skimping is not an option. The price of proper husbandry for my Caiman goes to show that. Nearly $800 for everything but the Caiman itself. Tank, substrate, bulbs, water heater, decorations, filter, feeders, etc. Their lives depend on what you buy them, you skimp, they suffer.

As you said, they're exotic for a reason. If you can't handle it, you shouldn't have it. Not having the funds is no excuse. If you can't afford it, you shouldn't have it. This man obviously can't afford it(and doesn't want to deal with their exotic needs) and is just waiting for hand outs since no one is adopting from him or surrendering their animals frequently enough to fund his whole hoarding situation(yes, I see this more of a hoarding problem). In fact, more surrenders would just be worse. He's going to need a lot more than a few hundred dollars, I mean, unless he gets hand outs... which I don't see really happening, either. Times are tough, people can't really fork out money these days.

TucsonRES · 03-03-13, 12:11 PM

Well, we have some good news to report. Friday, Charlotte and I both talked to David from D&M and after a few conversations, yesterday we went out and David gave me the 12 aquatic turtles and he did state that he will not be taking any more turtles in. David even offered me some tanks and filtration equipment.
We did not take any new video of the conditions or the animals today. We did have a chance to talk a little bit about some of the other animals and he is still considering the offer from the Phoenix Herpetological Society which was extended through Dan Krull.
I want to give a special thank you to Dan for maintaining your professionalism and for going above what anyone could have asked of him in this situation. Also, to the Phoenix Herpetological Society for offering to make the drive and to take in all the remaining animals.
The turtles are currently in their 3 temporary tanks until their tank rack is completed and they have been checked by a vet by the end of the week.
This is a positive first step and we hope that David will continue to get some more positive encouragement from the reptile community and do the right thing for the rest of the animals.

P.S. I was planning on posting a video of the turtles and how to set up an aquatic turtle tank but apparently my phone (and I) take horrible videos, so that's probably not going to happen....but we'll see if I can salvage any of it.

Doug

TucsonRES · 03-04-13, 12:47 PM

Unfortunately, I did lose 1 RES in the first 14 hrs, which will be necropsied. I have vet checks scheduled this coming week with Dr. Jarchow. To say that their appetites are good is an understatement. When I threw in the pellets it looked like a feeding frenzy, which is to be expected when they have had nothing but greens for a long time.
After the vet checks are completed, they will be posted for adoption locally to good homes, preferably ones with outdoor ponds.
Even thought this story is far from over and there are more animals that need to be removed, I want to thank Erica (DD) for showing us what was happening out there and Charlotte for all the hours and everything that she has done to help improve the lives of those animals and her family as well for taking the ride out there with me this weekend.

jarich · 03-04-13, 01:20 PM

Thanks for the update and for keeping at this. Im happy to hear that David is opening up to the possibility of rehoming them.

Jendee · 03-04-13, 01:38 PM

yay!! sounds like things are going in the right direction now

so happy to hear!! Hopefully David continues to make good choices and this problem will completely be solved and become a positive story

TucsonRES · 03-09-13, 12:48 PM

Thought I'd share an update on the situation for everyone.
Copies of Charlotte's video and the story out of the UK about a tortoise enclosure that burnt down killing the 2 inhabitants (when they were mating and got tangled up in the heat lamp cords and pulled them down causing the fire) were sent to all the local Fire Inspectors and Fire Chiefs. D&M's address is right in the middle of 3 different Fire Stations and we have gotten responses from all 3. The 2 not responsible for that area thanked us and promised to contact their counterparts who are responsible to get some action taken. The Fire Dept. that is responsible, emailed that they had reviewed the video and have cause for concern and will inspect the property.

David sent an email to Charlotte:
<dmreptilerescue@aol.com> wrote:
i would like to you to know that dr. jarchow was out on 3-2 13, with pacc to health all the reptiles , all are in great health.found anew home for all the waterturtles, new homes for 2 snakes,and someof the tortoies. good by

Charlotte responded to that email with:
To: dmreptilerescue@aol.com
I find that difficult to believe as 3 turtles that were rescued from you need vet care and 1 died within 14 hours, ....

David called me that night and I called him back the next morning. He expressed his regret that the 1 turtle died. He told me during our conversation that he had sold a couple of the snakes and a tort but that he was still considering the offer from Dan and the Phoenix Herp Society. When I asked him what the vet and PACC had said about the turtles, he said, "Well, they really didn't look at the turtles because I told them that you were coming to get them that same day."
Which from the standpoint of thoroughness and accuracy of an investigation really bothered me. So I called the Chief Enforcement Officer for PACC. Jose informed me that they were indeed out there the morning of the 2nd. That the Enforcement Officer who went on this inspection has degrees in Biology/Zoology and Herpetology and that Dr. Jarchow accompanied the officer on the inspection. When I started to ask specific questions, I was told that they can not comment on an open and active investigation. I then informed him that David had said that he had been cleared of everything and given an okay to continue to operate as he had been. I was told that wasn't true and that once the investigation was concluded criminal and/or civil penalties could be imposed.
So that's where things stand as of right now. My concern is that the longer he takes to consider the Phoenix Herp Society offer the less likely he is going to do it.