Biozome?

[EmbraceCalamity]

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

The natives would simply be a filler until the permanent residents go in. Once the Ackies go in, I expect the natives will become lunch... And if plants are going to survive in a cage with monitors, I expect they'll need all the help they can get..
Overall I really just don't think it's dangerous, between being designed to be eco-friendly and such a small amount going in.. But the natives will test that I suppose.

I should note that this is all in the planning stage. The only steps that have been taken are locating potential sources, planning the cage, and stockpiling cash. It may not happen at all.

Not to be a smartass, but if you don't think it's dangerous (though I think everyone has unanimously agreed it's too big of a risk and given good evidence of that fact and you've just brushed us all off), why'd you even bother asking?

And the fact that they might not die right away (or at all) wouldn't necessarily mean it would be safe, so you can't really "test" it.

~Maggot

[jarich]

Originally Posted by EmbraceCalamity

Not to be a smartass, but if you don't think it's dangerous (though I think everyone has unanimously agreed it's too big of a risk and given good evidence of that fact and you've just brushed us all off), why'd you even bother asking?

And the fact that they might not die right away (or at all) wouldn't necessarily mean it would be safe, so you can't really "test" it.

~Maggot

It's funny that on this forum, anytime someone starts with, "not to be a..." they always seem to mean, "I'm about to be...".

Do tell EC, what "good evidence" have you given? Youve given what you usually give, which is conjecture and a lack of solid evidence or experience. Stop acting as if your advice is some sort of definitive proof. You own corn snakes, it seems this should be the limit of your scope of advice. What was being asked for was a solid reason not to use it, which is valid. The op wasn't asking for a bunch of 'feelings' about what is or isn't considered organic or all natural.

Piraracu, I'd agree that it seems unlikely that adding a small amount of this is going to be a problem. I'm not sure if there will be much advantage to it, but it hardly seems like there's going to be a problem with it. What would be interesting from a scientific standpoint would be to have two setups; one with this biozome, and one without.

[beardeds4life]

Originally Posted by jarich

Do tell EC, what "good evidence" have you given? Youve given what you usually give, which is conjecture and a lack of solid evidence or experience. Stop acting as if your advice is some sort of definitive proof. You own corn snakes, it seems this should be the limit of your scope of advice. What was being asked for was a solid reason not to use it, which is valid. The op wasn't asking for a bunch of 'feelings' about what is or isn't considered organic or all natural

I agree what "good evidence" have you given?

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by beardeds4life

I agree what "good evidence" have you given?

Maggot didn't give the evidence but others have. You can blame her for everything if you prefer since she's simply a scape goat.

The MSDS states NOT to breath it in over a prolonged period of time. What do you people think the animals will breath? Magical air from the air fairies?

Also, it's been noted that most things claimed to be organic are NOT necessarily organic. I am not stating that it is FOR SURE true with the product in question but it certainly does deem more research into those type of laws for "organic" soils and garden supplies.

So no reason to jump all over Maggot since she gave what was only her opinion and thoughts.

[beardeds4life]

OMRI is the more reliable one. They actually test products and trace ingredients so anything with the OMRI seal of approval is guaranteed organic.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Originally Posted by jarich

It's funny that on this forum, anytime someone starts with, "not to be a..." they always seem to mean, "I'm about to be...".

Do tell EC, what "good evidence" have you given? Youve given what you usually give, which is conjecture and a lack of solid evidence or experience. Stop acting as if your advice is some sort of definitive proof. You own corn snakes, it seems this should be the limit of your scope of advice. What was being asked for was a solid reason not to use it, which is valid. The op wasn't asking for a bunch of 'feelings' about what is or isn't considered organic or all natural.

I don't own corn snakes. Look at that conjecture. And it was pointed out by not just myself that the fact that it's advertised as "organic" means next to nothing, as there are very few regulations on what can be called "organic." (Also, how are regulations = to feelings? Seems like more conjecture.) Someone also pointed out that this stuff has a warning that if used in enclosed spaces it is known to cause respiratory problems in animals as large as humans. That seems like a decent reason to not use it in a reptile enclosure.

~Maggot

[Pirarucu]

Perhaps in the meantime I'll make something smaller scale and put some stuff in it to test the Biozome.

[beardeds4life]

To really know if it is safe you have to do long term studies. Just because it doesnt die from it does not mean it is safe or healthy. I wouldnt die from putting that on my garden and eating veggies from it but it wouldn't be very healthy.

[SpOoKy]

Personally I don't agree with thrying out the safety with native animals before putting others in. Is this because the native animals will be free from outside so it doesn't matter if they die? Testing something with the life of animals is not the greatest idea in my eyes.

[Pirarucu]

I'll also point out that you are misquoting me, as I only asked if anyone had used it. This thread was not intended to be a debate about safety, it was intended to gain from other's experiences. I believe it is safe, all it really is is something which would kick start a bioactive setup.
Also, I was planning to put natives in first even before I found this stuff, for the same reason. To get the bioactive setup up and running before introducing monitors, and to let the plants become well established before putting them to the test. Truthfully, "native" was not the best word to use. Brown anoles would be the main first inhabitants. They are taking over around here.. Tree frogs are hard to find around here, so those would be native but not wild caught. I'll be buying those from a store. Skinks would only go in if I could find some, and even then perhaps not.

[Corey209]

How is the term "organic" regulated?
Agricultural Marketing Service - National Organic Program
Here's a link that has some info about organics.


I know for a fact that the USDA regulates local organic farms in my area. "Organic is a labeling term that indicates that the food or other agricultural product has been produced through approved methods that integrate cultural, biological, and mechanical practices that foster cycling of resources, promote ecological balance, and conserve biodiversity. Synthetic fertilizers, sewage sludge, irradiation, and genetic engineering may not be used." The term organic isn't necessarily loosely interpreted but I do not think USDA regulates stuff like fertilizer so they could probably put anything they feel is "organic" in it.

[EmbraceCalamity]

Originally Posted by Corey209

How is the term "organic" regulated?
Here's a link that has some info about organics.

@Maggot, in the Central Valley of California (this is the only area I know about) they make sure that organic crops are actually grown without any inorganic chemicals. Not sure if they regulate everywhere like this or if it's only a local thing though.

That's for produce, which is one that I'd actually trust, as "organic" produce isn't genetically engineered or covered with toxic pesticides or grown with chemical fertilizers. Everything else, not so much.

~Maggot

[Corey209]

Originally Posted by EmbraceCalamity

That's for produce, which is one that I'd actually trust, as "organic" produce isn't genetically engineered or covered with toxic pesticides or grown with chemical fertilizers. Everything else, not so much.

~Maggot

I had just edited my post clarifying that Like you said, anything the USDA doesn't regulate can be abused.

Agricultural Marketing Service - Organic Standards

I wouldn't trust anything "organic" that doesn't have the USDA seal on it.

Apparently there's another seal that I've never heard of.
Identifying Organic Fertilizers | Organic. It’s Worth It

And I've found proof that Jobe's organic fertilizer is NOT organic. They have no seal or certification plus they use ammonium sulfate and potassium chloride neither of which are organic.

[bronxzoofrank]

Hi all,

I'm not familiar with the product, but a few things pop into mind: the use of the term "Organic", as far as I know, is not regulated..i.e. there are no industry or gov't standards that must be met before applying to a product. This may or may not be important to your intended use.

Marine and, increasingly, fresh water aquarists, use "live sand, live rock" to assist in filtration, maintain healthy substrate etc. In both zoo and home terrestrial enclosures, I have used leaf litter, collected topsoil, decaying wood and such in a similar manner; there are some concerns...where you collect, species kept, introduction of predators, etc., but the parasite/disease concerns often raised have not materialized (over decades, and such still in use at some major zoos)., These materials likely function in a similar way to the product in question.That being said, pl research or write in if you are unsure. The main benefit of such is seen in planted terrariums housing smaller amphibs, inverts..not sure if much of a difference would be seen in most other situations. Along these lines., sowbugs can also be useful in some situations (pl see here Terrestrial Isopods (Sowbugs, Pillbugs, Potato Bugs) As Food for Captive Reptiles and Amphibians | That Reptile Blog That Reptile Blog). Live plants alone, in the right situations, can also work wonders.

I've looked over the ingredients list quickly, but am not sure about safety, etc. I noticed chicken manure was listed....Years ago concerns were raised over the use of chicken manure as goldfish food in commercial goldfish rearing operations(common in some regions)..could Salmonella be transferred to people that keep fish, or to animals that eat the fish? Of course, there are 1,500+ plus Salmonella species, with varying life histories, so no way to predict w/o detailed studies (none to date, far as I know), just a thought. Sorry, rushing here and rambling, best, Frank

[Pirarucu]

Originally Posted by bronxzoofrank

Marine and, increasingly, fresh water aquarists, use "live sand, live rock" to assist in filtration, maintain healthy substrate etc. In both zoo and home terrestrial enclosures, I have used leaf litter, collected topsoil, decaying wood and such in a similar manner; there are some concerns...where you collect, species kept, introduction of predators, etc., but the parasite/disease concerns often raised have not materialized (over decades, and such still in use at some major zoos)., These materials likely function in a similar way to the product in question.

This was my first thought when I saw the product, I viewed it as having the same function as the live sand and live rock used in aquariums.