Why is this considered acceptable?

[Albert Clark]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

1. You've bred for about a year or two. It's a small sample size to consider everything in your practice as "successful". You're on the right track though so good for
2. That doesn't constitute overfeeding. I feed my breeding females weekly and usually 15% body weight and sometimes 20% if it's a female who has been bred a few years in a row. I don't consitute animals going to be using a large amount of their energy and body and fed a little more to aide in that as overfeeding.

3. If you can't tell the difference between what I mean by overfeeding and what you do then that's on you and how you read my posts. I can't be held responsible for what you understand.



Bingo! I don't feel the need to explain anything beyond what has been said here.

Wrong! I've been breeding for six years. Garter and king snakes for 4 years and ball pythons for the past 2 years. However I have owned all three species for over a a decade and a half or more.
Ok. I posted a picture of my pastel female breeding my pied and I know she is huge ai 2200 grams. I know that I have been pumping her and my albino female who is being paired as well. They are both still taking food so I know they are both being overfed.
I know what you mean by over feeding. You didn't clarify or exclude the times when breeding. Thanks.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Wrong! I've been breeding for six years. Garter and king snakes for 4 years and ball pythons for the past 2 years. However I have owned all three species for over a a decade and a half or more.
Ok. I posted a picture of my pastel female breeding my pied and I know she is huge ai 2200 grams. I know that I have been pumping her and my albino female who is being paired as well. They are both still taking food so I know they are both being overfed.
I know what you mean by over feeding. You didn't clarify or exclude the times when breeding. Thanks.

Sorry. I only knew of the ball pythons. My mistake.

We're on a reptile forum. I expect people like you to know the difference between breeding and feeding (which you may still be overdoing it but your descriptions are vague).

If you knew what I meant then no reason for you to take offense to bad keepers. Unless you feel you fit in the group or morons who overfeed their snakes.

[Albert Clark]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Sorry. I only knew of the ball pythons. My mistake.

We're on a reptile forum. I expect people like you to know the difference between breeding and feeding (which you may still be overdoing it but your descriptions are vague).

If you knew what I meant then no reason for you to take offense to bad keepers. Unless you feel you fit in the group or morons who overfeed their snakes.

I don't see why you insist on calling people morons bc they are making a decision to overfeed their snakes. Cant they just be ignorant of the proper feeding procedure? Maybe they're new to the hobby. I don't see where that calls for a insult. Why cant the risks , pros and cons just be explained to people without the counterproductive terminology? Thanks.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

Big snake girl you are making the assumption that all snakes need the same amount of enrichment and space relative to size. Snakes occupy many different niches in the wild so this is simply not true. If a ball python thrives well in a space you deem to small than isn't it really more of an opinion at that piont? If I am being honest an opinion you do not seem to have much proof of.

It doesn't matter how much enrichment a species needs, space should be offered regardless. Only fossorial snakes spend the majority of their time underground doing nothing. Even ball pythons, which people like to spread the myth they spend their lives in burrows, spend a good amount of time moving around in the wild. In fact, there are localities of ball pythons where the males spend their entire lives in the trees hunting birds, and only come down to mate. The females move to the ground when they reach a certain size to hunt mammals.

The majority of pythons and boas don't need quite as much as say, an active colubrid. Here I would differentiate by advising Lenght+Width=snake's length (and generally 18-24" of height) for the boids, and Length=snake's length for an active species like a corn or other ratsnake. Sure, not all need the same space, and I never implied it, but all (short of fossorials) should be allowed a base line of more than 1/3-1/2 their length.

I also don't see how saying snakes should be allowed space is antropomorphising (not saying you're saying this MesoCorney), nothing about that is ascribing human characteristics to them.

[FWK]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

In fact, there are localities of ball pythons where the males spend their entire lives in the trees hunting birds, and only come down to mate. The females move to the ground when they reach a certain size to hunt mammals.

Citation? I've never heard of this and would very much like to know more.

[SSSSnakes]

Originally Posted by FWK

Citation? I've never heard of this and would very much like to know more.

I would also like to know where you got your information about these tree dwelling bail pythons. I have search for it and have not come up with any info, except that ball pythons do climb trees.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by FWK

Citation? I've never heard of this and would very much like to know more.

One on differences of ectoparasite loads between the sexes.

Why do males and females of Python regius differ in ectoparasite load?**»**Brill Online

Sexual dimorphism and dietary divergance.

There's also this one, which I have yet to find the full text of so I can access the actual study.

An investigation into the composition, complexity and functioning of snake communities in the mangroves of south-eastern Nigeria - Luiselli - 2002 - African Journal of Ecology - Wiley Online Library

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

One on differences of ectoparasite loads between the sexes.

Why do males and females of Python regius differ in ectoparasite load?**»**Brill Online

Sexual dimorphism and dietary divergance.

There's also this one, which I have yet to find the full text of so I can access the actual study.

An investigation into the composition, complexity and functioning of snake communities in the mangroves of south-eastern Nigeria - Luiselli - 2002 - African Journal of Ecology - Wiley Online Library

You do know the first link refutes the second link, correct?

The second link says they SUGGEST that males tend to be more arboreal. Long hanging branches and it's possible due to their smaller body than females.

The first link says both males and females were found in the same burrows so it debunked the suggestion that they were from different habitats outside of breeding.

It's still an interesting thought on sexes having different diets.

[FWK]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

One on differences of ectoparasite loads between the sexes.

Why do males and females of Python regius differ in ectoparasite load?**»**Brill Online

Sexual dimorphism and dietary divergance.

There's also this one, which I have yet to find the full text of so I can access the actual study.

An investigation into the composition, complexity and functioning of snake communities in the mangroves of south-eastern Nigeria - Luiselli - 2002 - African Journal of Ecology - Wiley Online Library

This is some very interesting data. I honestly had no idea Ball Pythons took so many birds as prey. Very cool. I have chicks and small chickens for my Rat Snakes, I'm tempted to see if my male Ball Pythons would show any interest at all. It does not change my views on husbandry however. Relatively small tubs are the way to go, ideal for both the physical and psychological well-being of these animals. But it does shed some light on the species overall. Here is a link to the third paper, if you'd like to read it.

[Aaron_S]

Final Warning


No reason to have any petty debates or shots at each other. Debate the topic at hand in a reasonable manner or I'll begin the time outs.

[Andy_G]

Or a small enclosure less packed. I have never kept a snake in an enclosure that they couldn't properly thermoregulate in so that's a pretty poor
example...and as far as humidity goes...use a humid hide...and there's your microclimates.

I can appreciate where you're coming from, but can't even remotely agree that bigger is better becase of the behavioral nature of these animals. Birds are not snakes, and sometimes a snake is only in a tree to eat or find food...not because they enjoy being there or it enriches their lives somehow...they want a meal or they need to bask... You're still presenting to be a bit anthro in the opinions an ideas you have expressed here...and as FWK mentioned...a little carried away.

[Albert Clark]

@ Aaron: Thanks for getting back to me. I see your points. Thank you for the civility.