Varanids Counting and other intelligent things

[Starbuck]

one of the methods they use to determine how intelligent a species is uses the recognition of self; they will paint a dot on an animals flank or forehead etc, and see if the animal sees the image in a mirror, recognizes that the image is 'self' and then investigates the dot.

While i personally think this test is selectively efficient for social animals, it may work for monitors. i think this would be really neat to see if monitors have this capacity; you could start by training them that if they touch a target (dot) they get food, then paint the target on the lizards side (or somewhere they could only see if the had a mirror, i.e. their chest?) and then see if the monitor makes an effort to touch the target on 'self' for the treat. The problem with monitors (and crows, and dolphins) is that they don't have hands or trunks (like chimps, people, and elephants) so it is more difficult to quantify an investigatory movement towards the dot vs. simple preening etc. i guess i'd have to do some more research, as I'm pretty sure dolphins and crows have 'passed' this test...

[formica]

Originally Posted by Starbuck

one of the methods they use to determine how intelligent a species is uses the recognition of self; they will paint a dot on an animals flank or forehead etc, and see if the animal sees the image in a mirror, recognizes that the image is 'self' and then investigates the dot.

While i personally think this test is selectively efficient for social animals, it may work for monitors. i think this would be really neat to see if monitors have this capacity; you could start by training them that if they touch a target (dot) they get food, then paint the target on the lizards side (or somewhere they could only see if the had a mirror, i.e. their chest?) and then see if the monitor makes an effort to touch the target on 'self' for the treat. The problem with monitors (and crows, and dolphins) is that they don't have hands or trunks (like chimps, people, and elephants) so it is more difficult to quantify an investigatory movement towards the dot vs. simple preening etc. i guess i'd have to do some more research, as I'm pretty sure dolphins and crows have 'passed' this test...

interesting, any suggestions for a safe paint to use?

monitors use their tongues to investigate things, that could potentially be a way to do it, they dont preen, so it should be obvious...but how do you paint a dot onto a monitor, without it realizing? so that it only spots it in a mirror...maybe it could be done while being distracted with a treat

I think cats do badly with this test aswel dont they?

[Starbuck]

Originally Posted by formica

interesting, any suggestions for a safe paint to use?

monitors use their tongues to investigate things, that could potentially be a way to do it, they dont preen, so it should be obvious...but how do you paint a dot onto a monitor, without it realizing? so that it only spots it in a mirror...maybe it could be done while being distracted with a treat

I think cats do badly with this test aswel dont they?

a lot of 'intelligent' animals cannot pass, i think less than 60% of elephants pass the test, as well as dogs. Im not sure of a safe paint, but i think a human fingerpaint would be ok? or just a colored sticker... i'd have to look up the papers again to follow through on the study, but the main idea is that it has to be somewhere on the body that the animal can ONLY see it on a mirror, not just by turning their head (so i don't think a flank would work on a monitor). You can always apply the paint mark and wait for it to dry before doing the test, so the monitor no longer feels the wetness of the paint.