Biozome? - Page 5

EmbraceCalamity · 12-30-12, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

I did not see that until now, I shot him a PM.

I already did it.

~Maggot

bronxzoofrank · 12-30-12, 06:00 PM

Hi all,

I'm not familiar with the product, but a few things pop into mind: the use of the term "Organic", as far as I know, is not regulated..i.e. there are no industry or gov't standards that must be met before applying to a product. This may or may not be important to your intended use.

Marine and, increasingly, fresh water aquarists, use "live sand, live rock" to assist in filtration, maintain healthy substrate etc. In both zoo and home terrestrial enclosures, I have used leaf litter, collected topsoil, decaying wood and such in a similar manner; there are some concerns...where you collect, species kept, introduction of predators, etc., but the parasite/disease concerns often raised have not materialized (over decades, and such still in use at some major zoos)., These materials likely function in a similar way to the product in question.That being said, pl research or write in if you are unsure. The main benefit of such is seen in planted terrariums housing smaller amphibs, inverts..not sure if much of a difference would be seen in most other situations. Along these lines., sowbugs can also be useful in some situations (pl see here Terrestrial Isopods (Sowbugs, Pillbugs, Potato Bugs) As Food for Captive Reptiles and Amphibians | That Reptile Blog That Reptile Blog). Live plants alone, in the right situations, can also work wonders.

I've looked over the ingredients list quickly, but am not sure about safety, etc. I noticed chicken manure was listed....Years ago concerns were raised over the use of chicken manure as goldfish food in commercial goldfish rearing operations(common in some regions)..could Salmonella be transferred to people that keep fish, or to animals that eat the fish? Of course, there are 1,500+ plus Salmonella species, with varying life histories, so no way to predict w/o detailed studies (none to date, far as I know), just a thought. Sorry, rushing here and rambling, best, Frank

Pirarucu · 12-30-12, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronxzoofrank

Marine and, increasingly, fresh water aquarists, use "live sand, live rock" to assist in filtration, maintain healthy substrate etc. In both zoo and home terrestrial enclosures, I have used leaf litter, collected topsoil, decaying wood and such in a similar manner; there are some concerns...where you collect, species kept, introduction of predators, etc., but the parasite/disease concerns often raised have not materialized (over decades, and such still in use at some major zoos)., These materials likely function in a similar way to the product in question.

This was my first thought when I saw the product, I viewed it as having the same function as the live sand and live rock used in aquariums.

beardeds4life · 01-01-13, 10:30 PM

Chickens are fed some nasty stuff and so in turn that would be in their manure. I have also known some fertilizers to be infested with bug eggs and such.

bronxzoofrank · 01-02-13, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beardeds4life

Chickens are fed some nasty stuff and so in turn that would be in their manure. I have also known some fertilizers to be infested with bug eggs and such.

Very true; I used to drink raw eggs as a kid (common among Italian American;'s of my parent's generation, so I took to it early) - bad move! I guess chickens were "cleaner" in the old days; I came down with Salmonella right away! Happy new year, Frank

Pirarucu · 01-02-13, 11:41 AM

True, though the bugs would not be a problem, the idea is to have a living soil...

**Aaron_S** · 01-02-13, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

No, there was no evidence given. The MSDS states for humans not to breathe silica dust over time. ALL clay contains silica, every bit of it on the globe. So this evidence is not evidence after all when someone actually looks closer into it. Given this 'evidence' we shouldnt use any soil with clay in it ever, and animals all over the globe that live in burrows should really be in trouble.

I've been away and I wanted to make a comment on this part in particular.

The difference between the animals in burrows and the animals in our homes is that they are in small containers compared to what they get in the wild. They can move from one burrow to the next. ALSO, they get the SAME air flow on a regular basis. It's not like us, where we go out to the mall, work, dinner. Leaving the house. Our animals do not.

I personally would not use this product. If the OP wants to then by all means but if a sickness arises I better not see a thread on it.

beardeds4life · 01-02-13, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I've been away and I wanted to make a comment on this part in particular.

The difference between the animals in burrows and the animals in our homes is that they are in small containers compared to what they get in the wild. They can move from one burrow to the next. ALSO, they get the SAME air flow on a regular basis. It's not like us, where we go out to the mall, work, dinner. Leaving the house. Our animals do not.

I personally would not use this product. If the OP wants to then by all means but if a sickness arises I better not see a thread on it.

I agree 100%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronxzoofrank

Very true; I used to drink raw eggs as a kid (common among Italian American;'s of my parent's generation, so I took to it early) - bad move! I guess chickens were "cleaner" in the old days; I came down with Salmonella right away! Happy new year, Frank

I have seen some of the stuff in chicken feed it is horrible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirarucu

True, though the bugs would not be a problem, the idea is to have a living soil...

Obviously but their are pest bugs in them that you don't want in their. I.E. stuff that will wipe out every single plant in the viv overnight.

Corey209 · 01-02-13, 01:53 PM

Can't you just use normal substrate like coco fiber and get springtails to avoid all this crap that could possibly harm your animals?

beardeds4life · 01-02-13, 05:53 PM

YES! And to kickstart it go to the woods and collect a small sample of soil which will have way more microbes in it than this stuff. Their is no point to risk your animals with this crap.

jarich · 01-03-13, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I've been away and I wanted to make a comment on this part in particular.

The difference between the animals in burrows and the animals in our homes is that they are in small containers compared to what they get in the wild. They can move from one burrow to the next. ALSO, they get the SAME air flow on a regular basis. It's not like us, where we go out to the mall, work, dinner. Leaving the house. Our animals do not.

I personally would not use this product. If the OP wants to then by all means but if a sickness arises I better not see a thread on it.

When did you become the thread police, Aaron?

I see you completely blew by the important part of my comment, that all clay contains silica and therefore your argument didnt make much sense. The soil in your backyard contains it, which no one in this thread seems to have a problem with, including yourself. The silica is a non issue.

The only one who came up with anything useful was Frank, when he said that the manure could contain salmonella. However, Im not sure if Frank caught that the manure was composted. Commercially composted manure will reach a temperature that kills salmonella. Its generally composted to get rid of the smell, but has the nice ancillary benefit of also killing off things like Salmonella. And if this is a big worry, make sure sterilize your reptiles too as many of them already have Salmonella. While your at it, never eat chicken again..or eggs.

Corey, by the way, I thought you had a deal going where you weren't going to comment on things you dont know about for sure. This is one of those things, so please stick to that deal.

Either way, Im pretty sure the OP has already made a decision so there seems little point in continuing this thread.

Corey209 · 01-03-13, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

Corey, by the way, I thought you had a deal going where you weren't going to comment on things you dont know about for sure. This is one of those things, so please stick to that deal.

Either way, Im pretty sure the OP has already made a decision so there seems little point in continuing this thread.

Everything I said was researched. Jobe's has bad reviews for not being a true organic fertilizer and not even being that beneficial. I found two ingredients that proved this wasn't organic and I listed them. You could make a natural bioactive substrate cheaper and easier then using this crap product.

jarich · 01-03-13, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey209

Everything I said was researched. Jobe's has bad reviews for not being a true organic fertilizer and not even being that beneficial. I found two ingredients that proved this wasn't organic and I listed them. You could make a natural bioactive substrate cheaper and easier then using this crap product.

Research is much more than just looking at customer reviews from some random website. You need to know more about the subject before being able to distinguish what is good information from what is junk on the internet. Which is why you didnt understand that what you were saying wasnt true.

Also, your two ingredients arent right. One of them, potassium chloride, is perfectly acceptable in organic products as it is a component of sea water. In scientific terms, it is not an organic compound, which is probably where you got mixed up. It has no carbon atoms in it and so is considered an inorganic compound. However, that has nothing to do with it being considered usable in an organic classification like this, which is a common use of the word and totally different from chemistry. The second, ammonium sulfate, doesnt actually appear to be in this particular product but in this company's other product called "fertilizer spikes".

'Natural bioactive substrate' you make yourself isnt technically organic either, and whether or not this product is technically organic was never the question anyway.

Like I said, until you know what you are talking about, its probably best to stick to your deal.

**Aaron_S** · 01-03-13, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

When did you become the thread police, Aaron?

I see you completely blew by the important part of my comment, that all clay contains silica and therefore your argument didnt make much sense. The soil in your backyard contains it, which no one in this thread seems to have a problem with, including yourself. The silica is a non issue.

The only one who came up with anything useful was Frank, when he said that the manure could contain salmonella. However, Im not sure if Frank caught that the manure was composted. Commercially composted manure will reach a temperature that kills salmonella. Its generally composted to get rid of the smell, but has the nice ancillary benefit of also killing off things like Salmonella. And if this is a big worry, make sure sterilize your reptiles too as many of them already have Salmonella. While your at it, never eat chicken again..or eggs.

Corey, by the way, I thought you had a deal going where you weren't going to comment on things you dont know about for sure. This is one of those things, so please stick to that deal.

Either way, Im pretty sure the OP has already made a decision so there seems little point in continuing this thread.

I'm the thread police since people don't like to take advice...

I read what you said and I refuse to believe "oh everything has it so it's GOT to be okay." I have yet to read a soil MSDS that states what this product does. There could very well be different levels of it between to the two products based on the different places it could come from.

Personally, I would steer clear of it.

beardeds4life · 01-04-13, 11:10 AM

I would like to point out to the OP that even if they did use this crap and their animals didn't get sick and die they would still have to seed the cage with isopods and springtails. This stuff contains a few beneficial bacteria that are helpful to plants. It will not give you stuff that will get rid of the poop. It seems to me like you are being lazy. You wont just get a small scoop of chemical free soil and put it in their along with some isopods and springtails.