Monitor enclosure discussion thread - Page 6

Gregg M · 05-11-12, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

Where is your daily chronicle proving that a large cage is detrimental to raising babies??

Wayne, I love what you have provided for your little savs. You have gone way beyond what even some seasoned varanid keepers provide for juviniles.

I do not think anyone is say it is detrimental to provide large cages like that for young animals. In my opinion it is not a must.

varanus_mad · 05-12-12, 08:29 AM

Moe

wayne.

This is one of those things... thats fully debatable and while there are some good points its kind of irrelevant so long as... the enclosure fully supports the monitors needs be it baby or adult.

Which quite frankly... we can all agree most fail miserably.

BarelyBreathing · 05-11-12, 01:04 PM

I have to agree here. There is no proof saying that monitors shouldn't be in larger enclosures, even as babies. As long as the enclosure is well set up

mo9e64 · 05-12-12, 09:23 AM

You can't transfer experience through a care sheet, you can just say 'setup your cage right'-this is dillusional.Wayne did not start his experience with monitors this way,and all the same imformation to be sucessful was at his disposal-I hope that this time round he has better sucess,and i suspect he will.

varanus_mad · 05-12-12, 01:03 PM

Mo im failing to see what your point is...

mo9e64 · 05-12-12, 01:38 PM

Everybody is saying a large cage if setup properly can be used for baby monitors,which i agree is possible.That's assuming a beginner can set up an adult cage properly-having setup an adult enclosure their can be problems not encounted using smaller cages.My point is mostly why do something which unless understood or experienced is not really better than using a smaller easier to control smaller cage.

Hopefully that makes sense-don't worry i won't ramble anymore about this

varanus_mad · 05-12-12, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo9e64

Everybody is saying a large cage if setup properly can be used for baby monitors,which i agree is possible.That's assuming a beginner can set up an adult cage properly-having setup an adult enclosure their can be problems not encounted using smaller cages.My point is mostly why do something which unless understood or experienced is not really better than using a smaller easier to control smaller cage.

Hopefully that makes sense-don't worry i won't ramble anymore about this

your also assuming they can set up a small cage proberly... LOL

infernalis · 05-12-12, 01:52 PM

I would also like to know how to provide such a wide thermal / humidity gradient with a small cage.

Most of us spend enough time preaching large cages till we're blue in the face.

varanus_mad · 05-12-12, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

I would also like to know how to provide such a wide thermal / humidity gradient with a small cage.

Most of us spend enough time preaching large cages till we're blue in the face.

you can do that with a retes stack... plus they also increase the usable space available for monitors.

rullom · 05-12-12, 02:09 PM

I know you guys probably don't care to see what I have to say but I have extensive experience in reptiles other than monitors and the basic reason for not using a large cage is simply for the inability to find food. If this is combated as wayne mentioned to me earlier with a dish or so (which monitors will use) then the large cage is fine. Larger enclosures do not fluctuate as much as small ones do which can be a benefit. What moe is arguing for I think is that small cages are easier to start for beginning hobbyists and this is true. It takes much more time to see if a large cage is working properly... Small cages can hit temps and conditions that you need much sooner than large cages during variable changes, and this should also warn you that the changes in opposite direction can also occur as fast if something fails. This is all that I have to say.

varanus_mad · 05-12-12, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rullom

I know you guys probably don't care to see what I have to say but I have extensive experience in reptiles other than monitors and the basic reason for not using a large cage is simply for the inability to find food. If this is combated as wayne mentioned to me earlier with a dish or so (which monitors will use) then the large cage is fine. Larger enclosures do not fluctuate as much as small ones do which can be a benefit. What moe is arguing for I think is that small cages are easier to start for beginning hobbyists and this is true. It takes much more time to see if a large cage is working properly... Small cages can hit temps and conditions that you need much sooner than large cages during variable changes, and this should also warn you that the changes in opposite direction can also occur as fast if something fails. This is all that I have to say.

lol i always find that argument ammusing ive never seen a reptile starve to death because it couldnt find its food.

How do they survive in the wild then? there good at finding food... hell a lot better than the average human would be.

infernalis · 05-12-12, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varanus_mad

lol i always find that argument ammusing ive never seen a reptile starve to death because it couldnt find its food.

How do they survive in the wild then? there good at finding food... hell a lot better than the average human would be.

Best thing I read all day.

They can smell an earthworm below a foot of soil, and dig it up to eat it as well.

rullom · 05-12-12, 05:55 PM

well its not that they "may" starve to death (In the wild i think < 30% survive to adulthood). I could be slightly off there but it is low (eggs to adult). We try to simulate ideal conditions so we won't' necessarily see them starve but we want to ensure the exact amount of proper diet that is ideal. Again dishes will work with this species

mo9e64 · 05-12-12, 03:08 PM

So as a beginner Varanus Mad you would recommend starting a baby monitor in an adult cage?

Rullom,your opinion is as valuable as anyones on here-don't be afraid to comment.

jarich · 05-12-12, 04:07 PM

I would disagree Moe, and the reason is that for the requirements of monitors, I think it is actually easier to accomplish in a larger enclosure. One of the most essential parts of the enclosure is deep substrate and high humidity levels. The deeper the substrate is, the easier it is to control humidity and keep it constant within the enclosure at the proper levels. The smaller the enclosure, the less substrate you can provide. Now for the experienced keeper this isn't as problematic as we are aware of the exact humidity requirements and how best to keep them up. However for a newbie, the easiest way is to provide a whole lot of moist substrate, which means a nice 3-4 ft high cage at least.

The longer the enclosure, as Wayne mentioned, the easier it is to provide the proper heat gradients. This is again especially true for a newbie, who will normally buy a nice, big 100-150 watt bulb or higher. Thus the longer enclosure of 5 feet or more allows the animal to get away from the high heat created by such a big bulb. (A retes stack will help, but its still compensatory in this case.) Even without a high watt bulb, its easier to get the basking spot temps needed and a good cool end temp in a longer enclosure. So now we are at around a 6 ft long by 4 ft high enclosure, which is pretty close to an adult enclosure anyway.

Also, enrichment and exercise are always good for them, no matter what age. Making your monitor search for its food is a good thing. Again, the larger cage wins hands down in those two criteria.

With the other parameters there seems little difference I can see between a small or large cage. I think the only 'easier' part of a smaller enclosure is the space required to keep it in and the money it costs the keeper. Im not saying these aren't things to consider, just that they aren't based on the needs of the monitor.

So my question is, what exactly is easier to control in a smaller cage? It sounds like something you've heard, but not really digested enough to say what specifically makes it simpler. So those of you that think smaller is better, what is simpler for new people to control within a smaller enclosure?