What is a good starter nonvenomous snake?

Ivanator · 09-21-12, 11:57 AM

I would like to eventually get a rattlesnake, not sure what kind yet but it has to be native to California. I want to practice with a nonvenomous that may have the same temperament as a rattler, but I don't know what. I hear racers and ratsnakes, but those are for if you want to get into elapids. I've been thinking about this for a long time and I have about 15 years experience with snakes, mostly retics. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Will0W783 · 09-21-12, 12:04 PM

I'm not sure honestly what would be a good analog for a rattlesnake, as they are somewhat unique in their movements. I think any aggressive python/boa might help you develop the hooking skills you will need, but a rattlesnake is not a good first hot. If you would like to eventually get into rattlers, you are much better off starting with the rear-fanged snakes like FWCs and then moving into copperheads, then into rattlers. Even the mildest rattlesnake venom has the potential to result in amputations of fingers and/or hands or feet....they are NOT a good choice for a first venomous snake for anyone. I rehabilitated a very sick Western diamondback, and I have no desire to own another one ever. She was very quick and very very aggressive. Some species, like the speckled and Panamint rattlesnakes, are known to be generally more docile, but they should still be treated with great respect.

StudentoReptile · 09-21-12, 12:15 PM

Find a mentor!

....specifically, someone in your state reputable in the herp community that works with venomous on a regular basis. 15 years with pythons and boas won't help you much for dealing with hots, although cleaning/scrubbing water bowls is pretty standard across the board.

You need first-hand one-on-one experience from someone experienced. You won't get this over the internet.

RandyRhoads · 09-21-12, 12:38 PM

Like Kim said , it would be pretty hard to find something that mimics a rattlesnake. If you know you are going to get one for sure, first start getting hooks, cages, equipment, safety measures, and start reading about bites. Toxicology for different snakes, EMS bite procedures, definitive/long term treatment, closest hospital that stocks CroFab. Also find out about your insurance. Health and property. Do you live in a house? Do you own it? Do you rent, if so how will your landlords feel about it? Are snakes legal in your residence at all?

You live somewhat close to another member on here. Maybe a field herping trip could be arranged. I would like to go down south and see what kind of hots I could find...

Will0W783 · 09-21-12, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Find a mentor!

....specifically, someone in your state reputable in the herp community that works with venomous on a regular basis. 15 years with pythons and boas won't help you much for dealing with hots, although cleaning/scrubbing water bowls is pretty standard across the board.

I couldn't agree more with this. No matter how much practice you have with nonvenomous snakes, nothing can truly prepare you for the day-to-day reality of living with potential death, other than a mentor who can point out the mistakes you are making in a controlled environment and keep you safer. We all get bad habits, and most times we dont' even realize we are doing the dangerous thing until we are either bitten or someone else points it out. A mentor is by far your best bet, along with keeping aggressive smaller non-venomous snakes. A retic is NOTHING like any of the hots you mentioned being interested in.

DuskyPyg95 · 09-21-12, 07:48 PM

I found its pretty hard to prepare yourself for "Hots" they don't act like a python or boa or even a racer for that matter. My southern copperheads behavior isn't like my Dusky Pygmy's my copperhead is alert but isn't prone to be easily agitated the Dusky however. Is easily annoyed and has a nasty temper and is more then willing to bite multiple times and gets irritated just by me being in the vicinity.

Ivanator · 09-21-12, 08:13 PM

Thanks guys for your responses. I've had a few rear-fanged snakes, but I don't feel they taught me anything really about dealing with hots. The closest I had, temperament wise, was a mangrove snake, but since they are not heavy bodied and arboreal, the experience it gave me is completely mute when working with a heavy bodied, terrestrial rattlesnake. I live in California so there isn't a lot of people in my area that are experienced with hot snakes because we are only allowed to keep native venomous such as western diamondbacks and beaded lizards. I would really like to keep an eyelash viper or some type of cobra, but it is extremely hard to get a license for one here unless it's for educational purposes and even that is pretty hard to acquire. Would you guys recommend maybe starting off with an extremely aggressive blood python and treating it as if it were hot? I feel that even that wouldn't really work cuz in the back of my mind, I will always know that its not venomous so I feel that will affect the seriousness of trying to prepare for a rattler.

moshirimon · 09-21-12, 08:27 PM

Lol a very big, extremely aggressive blood... Really cool that you're willing to take on that challenge. Those things can pack a huge punch. Also I'm really not sure about what snake would help you as I am not a venomous guy, but I'm guessing smaller species, and more aggressive individuals would be the best.

Ivanator · 09-21-12, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moshirimon

Lol a very big, extremely aggressive blood... Really cool that you're willing to take on that challenge. Those things can pack a huge punch. Also I'm really not sure about what snake would help you as I am not a venomous guy, but I'm guessing smaller species, and more aggressive individuals would be the best.

I never thought I would ever keep a venomous animal, but my love of all snakes and monitors and constant interest in hot herps has finally gave in. Even if I am unable to find a mentor now, I know that one day I will find one and be able to keep one after I learn. There's no way I am going to get one without knowing how to take care of them and learn all the precautions with an expert first.

DuskyPyg95 · 09-21-12, 08:59 PM

Well do you have any local species?? Southern Pacifics are cool unfortunately they have highly toxic venom so its not wise to keep them just starting out. Some smaller crotalus could work though if you have any locally I would say Banded rock rattlesnakes but I don't know if they are native to your state.

MDT · 09-21-12, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

Like Kim said , it would be pretty hard to find something that mimics a rattlesnake. If you know you are going to get one for sure, first start getting hooks, cages, equipment, safety measures, and start reading about bites. Toxicology for different snakes, EMS bite procedures, definitive/long term treatment, closest hospital that stocks CroFab. Also find out about your insurance. Health and property. Do you live in a house? Do you own it? Do you rent, if so how will your landlords feel about it? Are snakes legal in your residence at all?

You live somewhat close to another member on here. Maybe a field herping trip could be arranged. I would like to go down south and see what kind of hots I could find...

RR...very good advice.

Ivanator · 09-21-12, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuskyPyg95

Well do you have any local species?? Southern Pacifics are cool unfortunately they have highly toxic venom so its not wise to keep them just starting out. Some smaller crotalus could work though if you have any locally I would say Banded rock rattlesnakes but I don't know if they are native to your state.

I really wanted a western diamondback cuz I'm really into larger sized snakes, but their venom is just insane and having ADHD, I don't want to risk that until I have at least 5 years experience with a smaller species of rattlesnake. I was thinking maybe a sidewinder since they're smaller and I love the way that they move, but I still want to find a mentor and have at least some experience with an actual hot, not a rear fanged colubrid, before I get that.
I've caught plenty of rattlesnakes when I go on hikes and my friends always think I'm crazy, but catching them is one thing, actually keeping them and living with them is a whole other ball game.

DuskyPyg95 · 09-21-12, 10:02 PM

To be honest I just went out and bought a snake hook and later caught a southern copperhead. Now i have a Dusky Pygmy I just treat them like living biological guns that can go off at anytime. I just don't let myself get complacent you get complacent and you get plugged. A sidewinder can be hard to get feeding though as ive have a friend who has one they are cool though. There is no good starter "Hot" even a supposed "mild" venomous snake can put you in the hospital. Copperheads and Pygmy's aren't respected due to their supposed "mild" venom's Pygmy's have pretty potent venom really. Copperheads get written off because they are supposed to be "mild" tell that to people who went through the hurt locker after a bite. Western Diamondback's don't have the most toxic venom but they have a high venom yield so they can kill you just because of that. Im telling you though a none hot can't train you for a real "Hot" its just not the same cause you know its not "Hot". I can't treat something like its Hot when its not myself.

RandyRhoads · 09-21-12, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivanator

but catching them is one thing, actually keeping them and living with them is a whole other ball game.

Not as much as you might think. I've given you some suggestions on what to do as far as getting into keeping them. If you feel comfortable catching them in the wild, and have good experience doing it, it sounds like you just need to take care of the research more than the physical handling. The only thing you may need to be shown is how to tube them, which is really not that hard to learn either.

DuskyPyg95 · 09-23-12, 11:07 AM

It sounds like you know how to use a hook so that takes care of a lot of issues with regards to captive keeping. I say get something local of course your local crotalus are much hotter then mine mainly being canebrakes and Easterns.