Shedding With Unusual Kink In Tail.

[Carrie G]

[FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]My first snake was a bp, and he passed away this past summer at the age of 12.

So I'm not new to keeping them. This little one could be a challenge, though. My friend (who is a biologist, reptile breeder, and former curator at the Reptile House at the Bronx Zoo, so he's very knowledgeable and would not buy an animal that was unhealthy) found a ball python at Repticon in Tampa for me, as I couldn't go. My friend kept him for two weeks before I was able to get him, and he pooped and shed just fine for him.

But he has a kink in his tail. I was imagining a crooked tail. Earnie's kink actually looks like it ends in a cinnabon. Which is adorable, in my opinion. It hasn't interfered with anything, EXCEPT there's concern with shedding. (BTW, his mother was normal and his father was Pastel, Calico, Fire, Pinstripe. Could that have anything to do with his kink?)

My friend stressed to watch that tail, and I thought it would be good to "pre-help" it. I used mineral oil before I read why that's not a good idea. Vitamin E too (please keep in mind that while I had some problems with my late ball python shedding, I never had to do anything more than increase humidity or warm water baths.) I've also used shedding aids (yeah, I know, a waste of time,) and rubbing it gently with a warm wet washcloth, and given him a couple of baths.

On Friday he became opaque, and I had had problems keeping his humidity up. So I found out how to make a cheap humid hide and spray his tank twice a day. He also has towels on the top where there is open space.

So here are the details of his husbandry...55-gallon tank. UTH on one side with a 150-watt ceramic heater over it. The other side has a 60-watt ceramic heater that I use in the winter because the room he is in has no heat or a/c No lights because there is excellent light during the day. He has linoleum cut to fit his cage, a huge water dish, Exo-Terra caves on both ends, the humid hide that is half on, half off his UTH. The heaters stay on all the time and his temperatures are around 90 on the warm side and low 80's cool side. Humidity is 50% at the most.

He is eating fine too. He gets a hopper mouse once a week. I recently switched him to frozen thawed and will be switching up to rat pups. He is a small boy. His last weight was 95 grams.

So I need that humidity up. I'm thinking about wetting the towels that are on his cage screen and hoping that will trap and create humidity.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to help that little cinnabon shed?I know I'm probably overreacting here, but any thoughts would be very welcome. Sorry for the long drawn out post.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Get rid of the linoleum and put bedding in there, and lower the air flow.

Wet towels will not trap any humidity, I would use something non-porous like Saran wrap, aluminum foil, or replace the screen completely with plexiglass with air holes drilled into it.

Switching entirely to a tub may also be a good idea, if the room you have him in stays 75-80F since you can only really use flexwatt or UTHs in tubs. You can modify them to use lamps, but it takes careful planning.

[Albert Clark]

Well, I don't really see anything in his genetic makeup that makes him prone to kinking. Normal is one of the many hatchling possibilities included with the genetic pairing outcomes. The type of kink being so tightly curled will probably be problematic regardless of your routine attempts to keep adequate humidity in helping him to shed off the tail. Might be a good idea to have a professional evaluation for the extent of your options going forward in relation to the kink. I see where you mentioned the uth being on one side with a 150 watt ceramic heater on top? That seems extreme to me especially if you don't have the uth connected to a thermostat! If you don't you should unplug the uth immediately. A unregulated under tank heater can cause burn injury to the snake.

[Carrie G]

Thanks, I have a temperature probe on the area where the UTH is so I know what the temperature is coming up through his linoleum. The temperature does stay at what the high end should be in the warm end of the tank. I will look into a thermostat, though. As far as substrate, I will consider my options. I'm not a fan of the substrates for snakes. The last time I used it was in the 90's, and despite my best efforts that included changing it every other day, it would become moldy. My other ball python never had substrate. He always was on newspaper.

And thanks for the tip about using saran wrap. It would be so much easier.

As for his tail...that's what I'm afraid of. I plan to take him to the vet if it doesn't shed well. Though I don't think that much can be done. His cloaca is RIGHT at the start of the curl. They only thing I can see that they could do is unfuse the tail? And that just makes me cringe. Both options sound painful.

[Tsubaki]

I have a snake with a kink in her tail(tip) as well. Probably been broken by glass sliders or something of the sorts, it almost never sheds properly on its own.. Considered having it amputated, though i don't have to because it's quite easy to keep clean... Yours seems less easy though!. Amputation is something to consider, if any dirt gets stuck in this tight curl that you miss.. It could become a nasty infection. Shed could get stuck and cut off bloodflow.. There's a lot of potential issues.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Carrie G

[FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]My first snake was a bp, and he passed away this past summer at the age of 12.

So I'm not new to keeping them. This little one could be a challenge, though. My friend (who is a biologist, reptile breeder, and former curator at the Reptile House at the Bronx Zoo, so he's very knowledgeable and would not buy an animal that was unhealthy) found a ball python at Repticon in Tampa for me, as I couldn't go. My friend kept him for two weeks before I was able to get him, and he pooped and shed just fine for him.

But he has a kink in his tail. I was imagining a crooked tail. Earnie's kink actually looks like it ends in a cinnabon. Which is adorable, in my opinion. It hasn't interfered with anything, EXCEPT there's concern with shedding. (BTW, his mother was normal and his father was Pastel, Calico, Fire, Pinstripe. Could that have anything to do with his kink?)

My friend stressed to watch that tail, and I thought it would be good to "pre-help" it. I used mineral oil before I read why that's not a good idea. Vitamin E too (please keep in mind that while I had some problems with my late ball python shedding, I never had to do anything more than increase humidity or warm water baths.) I've also used shedding aids (yeah, I know, a waste of time,) and rubbing it gently with a warm wet washcloth, and given him a couple of baths.

On Friday he became opaque, and I had had problems keeping his humidity up. So I found out how to make a cheap humid hide and spray his tank twice a day. He also has towels on the top where there is open space.

So here are the details of his husbandry...55-gallon tank. UTH on one side with a 150-watt ceramic heater over it. The other side has a 60-watt ceramic heater that I use in the winter because the room he is in has no heat or a/c No lights because there is excellent light during the day. He has linoleum cut to fit his cage, a huge water dish, Exo-Terra caves on both ends, the humid hide that is half on, half off his UTH. The heaters stay on all the time and his temperatures are around 90 on the warm side and low 80's cool side. Humidity is 50% at the most.

He is eating fine too. He gets a hopper mouse once a week. I recently switched him to frozen thawed and will be switching up to rat pups. He is a small boy. His last weight was 95 grams.

So I need that humidity up. I'm thinking about wetting the towels that are on his cage screen and hoping that will trap and create humidity.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to help that little cinnabon shed?I know I'm probably overreacting here, but any thoughts would be very welcome. Sorry for the long drawn out post.

1. Out of all the baby ball pythons at repticon your friend picks the one with a kink? There had to be other healthy ones. Now you face a possible problem.

2. Might want to increase your hot spot to 95 degrees. Also a thermometer isn't a thermostat. A thermostat will cut the power to your heat source if it were getting too hot. Thus avoiding any injury. A thermometer you have to check on a regular basis, you cannot do this in your sleep.

3. Substrate change will be easy. It's almost 2 decades since the 90's so things have changed. Snakes shouldn't need a bath or help shedding if humidity is correct. I recommend a mulch type.

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

Get rid of the linoleum and put bedding in there, and lower the air flow.

Wet towels will not trap any humidity, I would use something non-porous like Saran wrap, aluminum foil, or replace the screen completely with plexiglass with air holes drilled into it.

Switching entirely to a tub may also be a good idea, if the room you have him in stays 75-80F since you can only really use flexwatt or UTHs in tubs. You can modify them to use lamps, but it takes careful planning.

Tub is a good option.

Towels are a bad idea if they are dry since the point of a towel is to suck up moisture. A wet towel doesn't do this The other options listed are also good.

Originally Posted by Tsubaki

I have a snake with a kink in her tail(tip) as well. Probably been broken by glass sliders or something of the sorts, it almost never sheds properly on its own.. Considered having it amputated, though i don't have to because it's quite easy to keep clean... Yours seems less easy though!. Amputation is something to consider, if any dirt gets stuck in this tight curl that you miss.. It could become a nasty infection. Shed could get stuck and cut off bloodflow.. There's a lot of potential issues.

Also a good option

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Towels are a bad idea if they are dry since the point of a towel is to suck up moisture. A wet towel doesn't do this The other options listed are also good.

Wet towels let humidity escape just as well as a dry one does. After personal experience, the only thing you'll experience from a constantly wet towel is a heavily molded one and the humidity inside the tank is just as low as ever.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

Wet towels let humidity escape just as well as a dry one does. After personal experience, the only thing you'll experience from a constantly wet towel is a heavily molded one and the humidity inside the tank is just as low as ever.

A wet towel is wet, thus adding water to the air. It might just have been in your place.

At any rate, as I mentioned, your other options were just as good.

[Carrie G]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

1. Out of all the baby ball pythons at repticon your friend picks the one with a kink? There had to be other healthy ones. Now you face a possible problem.

2. Might want to increase your hot spot to 95 degrees. Also a thermometer isn't a thermostat. A thermostat will cut the power to your heat source if it were getting too hot. Thus avoiding any injury. A thermometer you have to check on a regular basis, you cannot do this in your sleep.

3. Substrate change will be easy. It's almost 2 decades since the 90's so things have changed. Snakes shouldn't need a bath or help shedding if humidity is correct. I recommend a mulch type.



Tub is a good option.

Towels are a bad idea if they are dry since the point of a towel is to suck up moisture. A wet towel doesn't do this The other options listed are also good.



Also a good option

Aaron, I appreciate your advice, but one of the things I did not ask for advice on is a critique of my friend. He knows me, and if he didn't think I could properly take care of him or that the snake couldn't survive with that kink, he would not have purchased him. He had him for two weeks before I got him and the snake had fed, shed, and defecated. Even after buying him, if there was something wrong, he would have kept the snake himself. He is also a biologist, was one of the curators at The Bronx Zoo Reptile House, and breeds a lot of reptiles himself (as I have stated.) I have a 12-year-old anery Kenyan sand boa he bred. He was the only one to survive the clutch, and I had to wait months to get him. My friend wanted to make sure he was strong enough to survive. And if I wanted to return the snake to him and buy one of the normal ones at Pet Supermarket, I would've done it.

Having said that, I thought I'd reach out in a couple of forums to see what other people might suggest. I've been surprised. Criticizing my friend is not helpful. Nor is removing his tail. His cloaca is in the area where the vet would do the actual amputation.

I have put in a humid hide, am spraying the enclosure, and have covered it with wet towels. Yes, I do know they can get moldy, and I am being careful. It has raised the humidity up to 70%. I also got saran wrap to put in place of the towels. And before his next shed, he will have a repti-fogger misting his tank on a timer. Actually, I'm ordering that tonight.

If I thought that the only option is to put him in a tub, I would do it in a heartbeat, but he is a pet, and I just can't shut him up in one of them and stick him somewhere. That's a personal feeling. I know that they are kept successfully that way. It just goes against the grain for me.

Again, thank you all for your advice and help. I have learned a lot.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

A wet towel is wet, thus adding water to the air. It might just have been in your place.

At any rate, as I mentioned, your other options were just as good.

It might be more due to the fact I was using a heat lamp (like OP), it would dry out the half close to the dome but the rest would be wet for awhile and mold. Plus, he was on paper towels and not EcoEarth at the time. If I wasn't using a lamp I could imagine not having the lamp there in the first place would do just as much good as having a wet towel anyways. I eventually gave it up and put him in a tub. lol

Originally Posted by Carrie G

Aaron, I appreciate your advice, but one of the things I did not ask for advice on is a critique of my friend. He knows me, and if he didn't think I could properly take care of him or that the snake couldn't survive with that kink, he would not have purchased him. He had him for two weeks before I got him and the snake had fed, shed, and defecated. Even after buying him, if there was something wrong, he would have kept the snake himself. He is also a biologist, was one of the curators at The Bronx Zoo Reptile House, and breeds a lot of reptiles himself (as I have stated.) I have a 12-year-old anery Kenyan sand boa he bred. He was the only one to survive the clutch, and I had to wait months to get him. My friend wanted to make sure he was strong enough to survive. And if I wanted to return the snake to him and buy one of the normal ones at Pet Supermarket, I would've done it.

Having said that, I thought I'd reach out in a couple of forums to see what other people might suggest. I've been surprised. Criticizing my friend is not helpful. Nor is removing his tail. His cloaca is in the area where the vet would do the actual amputation.

I have put in a humid hide, am spraying the enclosure, and have covered it with wet towels. Yes, I do know they can get moldy, and I am being careful. It has raised the humidity up to 70%. I also got saran wrap to put in place of the towels. And before his next shed, he will have a repti-fogger misting his tank on a timer. Actually, I'm ordering that tonight.

If I thought that the only option is to put him in a tub, I would do it in a heartbeat, but he is a pet, and I just can't shut him up in one of them and stick him somewhere. That's a personal feeling. I know that they are kept successfully that way. It just goes against the grain for me.

Again, thank you all for your advice and help. I have learned a lot.

I think you're misunderstanding the use of tubs. Tubs are there to hold heat and humidity in, not for you to use as an excuse to tuck them away unseen somewhere....

I have most of my snakes in tubs, and it doesn't take anything away from the pet feeling. They're still pets, that doesn't go away just because they're in tubs. The importance of providing them the necessary husbandry is more important to me than the aesthetics of their enclosure. A tub is better suited to providing for their needs with less modification than a tank.

If you get a standalone tub and not a rack, you can see into a tub just about as well as a tank, so they can be watched just as easily as if you had them in a tank. I can see into my tubs so well I can visibly watch my snakes' eyes moving as they look around, so the plastic really does not hinder your vision in the slightest. The most it does is kinda mute their colors and cameras don't capture them as well as through glass, but if you are unable to get a tank to work that should hardly be a sacrifice.

If you think you can get a tank to work, go ahead, we're just suggesting tubs because they're easier and the easier it is:

1) the more likely you are to get the husbandry right in the first place

2) the more likely you are going to be willing to do the daily/weekly upkeep, thus ensuring their husbandry is up to par at all times

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Carrie G

Aaron, I appreciate your advice, but one of the things I did not ask for advice on is a critique of my friend. He knows me, and if he didn't think I could properly take care of him or that the snake couldn't survive with that kink, he would not have purchased him. He had him for two weeks before I got him and the snake had fed, shed, and defecated. Even after buying him, if there was something wrong, he would have kept the snake himself. He is also a biologist, was one of the curators at The Bronx Zoo Reptile House, and breeds a lot of reptiles himself (as I have stated.) I have a 12-year-old anery Kenyan sand boa he bred. He was the only one to survive the clutch, and I had to wait months to get him. My friend wanted to make sure he was strong enough to survive. And if I wanted to return the snake to him and buy one of the normal ones at Pet Supermarket, I would've done it.

Having said that, I thought I'd reach out in a couple of forums to see what other people might suggest. I've been surprised. Criticizing my friend is not helpful. Nor is removing his tail. His cloaca is in the area where the vet would do the actual amputation.

I have put in a humid hide, am spraying the enclosure, and have covered it with wet towels. Yes, I do know they can get moldy, and I am being careful. It has raised the humidity up to 70%. I also got saran wrap to put in place of the towels. And before his next shed, he will have a repti-fogger misting his tank on a timer. Actually, I'm ordering that tonight.

If I thought that the only option is to put him in a tub, I would do it in a heartbeat, but he is a pet, and I just can't shut him up in one of them and stick him somewhere. That's a personal feeling. I know that they are kept successfully that way. It just goes against the grain for me.

Again, thank you all for your advice and help. I have learned a lot.

1. You post on an open forum. Anything said is up for conversation. You may trust in your friend but I don't have to. I'm sure he knows well but I just find it strange to pick out a kinked animal out of ALL the animals there. Could simply be your budget didn't allow for anything more though.

2. No one is saying you HAVE to amputate. You asked for all suggestions, they were all given to you. Even the ones you may not like and don't have to use. The truth of the matter is, if the snake doesn't shed well, and that first picture it looks like there's possible stuck shed, then it will cut of the circulation of blood to the tail and it will need to be done anyway. THIS IS WORST CASE SCENARIO...no one wants it to get there. You should simply be aware of what it is.

3. I understand this is a pet of yours and you'd like to see it more so I get that you don't want to use a tub. However, you're putting in a lot of effort for a fish tank and modifying and spending dollar after dollar. Why not find a middle ground between a tub and a tank and see about using a PVC enclosure? They have great visibility for you to see the animal and you can outfit it with proper heating. Humidity will be easier to keep up too. Best of both worlds.

4. I wouldn't worry about mold on the towels. I doubt you'd change it so infrequently that it would be an issue. Or as you've done, make a total switch away from them to something else.

[Andy_G]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

1. You post on an open forum. Anything said is up for conversation. You may trust in your friend but I don't have to. I'm sure he knows well but I just find it strange to pick out a kinked animal out of ALL the animals there. Could simply be your budget didn't allow for anything more though.

2. No one is saying you HAVE to amputate. You asked for all suggestions, they were all given to you. Even the ones you may not like and don't have to use. The truth of the matter is, if the snake doesn't shed well, and that first picture it looks like there's possible stuck shed, then it will cut of the circulation of blood to the tail and it will need to be done anyway. THIS IS WORST CASE SCENARIO...no one wants it to get there. You should simply be aware of what it is.

3. I understand this is a pet of yours and you'd like to see it more so I get that you don't want to use a tub. However, you're putting in a lot of effort for a fish tank and modifying and spending dollar after dollar. Why not find a middle ground between a tub and a tank and see about using a PVC enclosure? They have great visibility for you to see the animal and you can outfit it with proper heating. Humidity will be easier to keep up too. Best of both worlds.

4. I wouldn't worry about mold on the towels. I doubt you'd change it so infrequently that it would be an issue. Or as you've done, make a total switch away from them to something else.

I agree very strongly with everything Aaron has said here.

I have seen this type of kinking before and it's in every case it's been due to trauma causing localized nerve damage, and it always will present a challenge with shedding.

In regards to using a tub versus a fish tank...there has to be a point where you must think of what's best for the snake and not aesthetics.

[Carrie G]

Originally Posted by Andy_G

I agree very strongly with everything Aaron has said here.

I have seen this type of kinking before and it's in every case it's been due to trauma causing localized nerve damage, and it always will present a challenge with shedding.

In regards to using a tub versus a fish tank...there has to be a point where you must think of what's best for the snake and not aesthetics.

I have his humidity at 70% which was my problem. His tail has shed fine. He did not suffer a trauma, he was born this way.

I clearly stated if that was the only way that I could get him to properly shed, I would put him in the tub. His health comes first. However, the reason why he would need the tub is humidity issues, and I have gotten that up. Setting up a whole new enclosure would be an expense I don't want to spend unless that was the absolute last choice. It's not about aesthetics, it's the thought that I'm shutting up my snake in a box. Though I know that ball pythons are successfully kept in tubs and that people prefer to keep them this way, all I can think of is he's shut up in a dark box with no environmental stimulation, and the thought of putting him through that really bothers me. Yes, I know that I'm anthropomorphizing it, but that is why I keep them as pets as opposed to breeding or owning large collections.

[Andy_G]

Originally Posted by Carrie G

I have his humidity at 70% which was my problem. His tail has shed fine. He did not suffer a trauma, he was born this way.

I clearly stated if that was the only way that I could get him to properly shed, I would put him in the tub. His health comes first. However, the reason why he would need the tub is humidity issues, and I have gotten that up. Setting up a whole new enclosure would be an expense I don't want to spend unless that was the absolute last choice. It's not about aesthetics, it's the thought that I'm shutting up my snake in a box. Though I know that ball pythons are successfully kept in tubs and that people prefer to keep them this way, all I can think of is he's shut up in a dark box with no environmental stimulation, and the thought of putting him through that really bothers me. Yes, I know that I'm anthropomorphizing it, but that is why I keep them as pets as opposed to breeding or owning large collections.

I don't see much differentiation between what I describe as aesthetics and your personal struggle of of shutting him in a box with no stimulation as both would be purely for your enjoyment and peace of mind, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as all needs are being met. The information that he was hatched out this way is puzzling and it's something that I would take with a grain of salt, but that's neither here nor there. The important thing is that you fixed the issue. If nothing else, with your friend having so much experience, he certainly made an interesting choice on your behalf that I am sure you will enjoy for years to come.

[Carrie G]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

1. You post on an open forum. Anything said is up for conversation. You may trust in your friend but I don't have to. I'm sure he knows well but I just find it strange to pick out a kinked animal out of ALL the animals there. Could simply be your budget didn't allow for anything more though.

2. No one is saying you HAVE to amputate. You asked for all suggestions, they were all given to you. Even the ones you may not like and don't have to use. The truth of the matter is, if the snake doesn't shed well, and that first picture it looks like there's possible stuck shed, then it will cut of the circulation of blood to the tail and it will need to be done anyway. THIS IS WORST CASE SCENARIO...no one wants it to get there. You should simply be aware of what it is.

3. I understand this is a pet of yours and you'd like to see it more so I get that you don't want to use a tub. However, you're putting in a lot of effort for a fish tank and modifying and spending dollar after dollar. Why not find a middle ground between a tub and a tank and see about using a PVC enclosure? They have great visibility for you to see the animal and you can outfit it with proper heating. Humidity will be easier to keep up too. Best of both worlds.

4. I wouldn't worry about mold on the towels. I doubt you'd change it so infrequently that it would be an issue. Or as you've done, make a total switch away from them to something else.

Aaron,

You are right on both accounts. I put up on an open forum that my friend got me this snake.

You are also right that no one told me to cut off his tail and that it is a suggestion.

I suppose what bothered me was that I felt that your comment on the snake my friend chose was a problem and a burden that I shouldn't have to deal with, and it was my friend's fault. When I view it as his tail is something I have to pay extra attention too, and I just wanted to get advice on what to do about getting the humidity higher or doing anything that would make it shed easier. I'm the kind of person that would get an animal because of any disease or deformity they might have.

He isn't a burden to me and I feel that my friend picked the perfect snake for me. Yes, I'm putting in a lot of effort and spending money to get his enclosure fit for him. But I don't consider it extra effort, I consider it being responsible for his health and well-being. and I would do anything for him. And yes, it has cost money to give him the ideal enclosure in his fish tank. However, dollar for dollar it would cost me more to put him in a whole new enclosure that wouldn't accommodate something like a 10-inch diameter water dish, hides, etc. I would have to start from scratch.

And, finally, I have recognized that being involved in an open forum is not for me. Obviously, I have been overly sensitive to comments, so I'm not going to post or read anything.

Thank you for your advice and help.