Why constantly soak in cold water when there's heat.

RandyRhoads · 06-08-11, 06:01 PM

Finally got my Burms new cage. 8' by 3' by 2.5'. Really like it. I have a good sized tub of water at one end, and at the other is a heat pad and a heat lamp. The heat pad goes on at night and light during the day.

The surface temp of the heat pad is 101 F and as you travel to the other end the surface temps rapidly decline to about 75 throughout the rest of the tank.

With the heat lamp, directly under it is 140 F, the middle of the enclose is about 85 and the other end is 75. I know 140F is too hot for her but 1 foot away it's 85 so does it need to be lowered?

The ambient temperature is always about 70 throughout. Does ambient matter or just surface temps? Can someone explain the differences( I know what they are, just not the importance of each seperately)

I don't understand why she is always at the cool end in water that 68 F. Could it be because there are no hides and she's just in there for security? I'm working on making a hide now but curious why she's in cold water rather than in the zones with ideal temps. It's not a shedding or mite issue. I know she doesn't have mites. And she soaked before shedding (as usual) but continues soaking still even though she has already shed.

bo2as · 06-09-11, 08:33 AM

How do did you make sure she did not have mites. some types of mites are not necessarily black like the common ones. does she ever go outside? Other than a mite problem I dont know what could be wrong. GOod luck and keep us posted

BlindOne · 06-09-11, 08:39 AM

I think using a light like that is just asking for trouble, I'd stick to the undertank heater only. Sounds like she's trying to escape the heat.

infernalis · 06-09-11, 08:48 AM

All I know is that this time of year a lot of my snakes hang out in or under the water bowls,

It's the way they cool off.

stephanbakir · 06-09-11, 12:17 PM

Sounds like hes either got mites or he doesn't have an appropriate temp gradient. Lose the lights and swap to belly head and monitor the surface temps.

RandyRhoads · 06-09-11, 12:59 PM

Ok i'm taking the heat light out and putting a regular low watt light bulb so it's not dark in the enclosure and just using the heat pad. But I tried turning it all off and just using the heat pad and she doesn't come out of the bowl. I assumed escaping the heat too, but even without heat she's in there. Why would she want to be under 70F at all let alone always? I thought burms needed higher temps than that at all times, or is that just when they want to be hotter than 70 they will?

Is ambient temperature important or just basking temps? Because 3/4 of the tank is about 75 and the other quarter is high.

stephanbakir · 06-09-11, 01:50 PM

Ambient is a little less important then belly heat. If she wants to warm up she will go to the warmer end. Are you sure she doesn't have mites?

Lankyrob · 06-09-11, 01:57 PM

Try putting a nice sized water bowl at the hot end - if it wants water and the only option is at the cold end then that is where it will go.

RandyRhoads · 06-09-11, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

Try putting a nice sized water bowl at the hot end - if it wants water and the only option is at the cold end then that is where it will go.

Good idea Rob. I'll try the tub in different places around the enclosure. And i'll also try to put an upside down tote as a hide in the hot end to see if that's what she's after.

Also just picked up a 20 watt light bulb so she'll have light without the scorchin heat of the lamp.

lpbldg18 · 06-09-11, 02:20 PM

oh yeah just that time of year. My milksnake started chilling in her water dish again last week, as she did all last summer too.

TeaNinja · 06-09-11, 05:43 PM

i saw my new dumerils soaking for a few minutes last night at like 2am. i'm sure she doesn't have mites. i guess she just wanted a swim.

Ch^4 · 06-09-11, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRhoads

Ok i'm taking the heat light out and putting a regular low watt light bulb so it's not dark in the enclosure and just using the heat pad. But I tried turning it all off and just using the heat pad and she doesn't come out of the bowl. I assumed escaping the heat too, but even without heat she's in there. Why would she want to be under 70F at all let alone always? I thought burms needed higher temps than that at all times, or is that just when they want to be hotter than 70 they will?

Is ambient temperature important or just basking temps? Because 3/4 of the tank is about 75 and the other quarter is high.

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

Ambient is a little less important then belly heat. If she wants to warm up she will go to the warmer end. Are you sure she doesn't have mites?

An appropriate basking temp is absolutely necessary, but inappropriate ambient temperature is asking for an RI.

RandyRhoads · 06-09-11, 10:09 PM

So what should the basking/ambient be at?

Will0W783 · 06-10-11, 07:21 AM

I don't agree with using undertank heaters for snakes. Snakes are baskers in the wild...they are evolved to handle overhead sunlight and the resulting heat from that. Does that mean the ground- rocks, dirt, etc- doesn't get hot in their natural climate? No, but excessive belly heat in captivity has been known to lead to constipation, burns, and digestive maladies (What's Wrong with My Snake? by Dr. John Rossi, DVM). It sounds to me like you don't have a good ambient temperature or an adequate gradient, if your described temperatures are indeed correct. I would turn off your heating pad (101 surface temp is a bit hot and may actually be uncomfortable for the snake to crawl across) and rely on your heating lamps only. When we speak of heat gradient, we are speaking of air temperatures, not the surface temperature of a light. Ambient heat would be the steady baseline temperature of the cage not under the light. You want a basking area (6inches-12inches) underneath the light of about 88-90. I would say that the 75 degree cool end is a bit too cold, but the 140 degree basking area is way too hot. Also are you using a digital temp gun to measure your temperatures?

My suggestions to you are to:
1. turn off the heating pad to eliminate belly heat
2. use a substrate that holds in warmth (aspen or cypress mulch are good for this)
3. Recheck your temperatures after 24 hours
4. If you still have such an extreme gradient- you might want to use a smaller wattage bulb and then use one at the hot end and one slightly more to the middle of the cage, to set up a more steady gradient. In my opinion, your hot end is way too hot and your cool end is too cold.
5. Check for mites in the water- remove the snake and pour the water out in increments into a white sink with the drain plugged.

6. Make sure your snake has other hiding places. An insecure snake will often just hang out in the water dish if no hides are provided, as the dish provides a tight spot to wedge into and feel slightly more secure.

Also, keep in mind that Burmese pythons like water. In the wild, they hang out near lakes and swamps. I tend to give my Burm a bathtub soak at least once a week- and he loves it. I let him in the bathroom and start filling up the tub and he will just slither right on into it.

RandyRhoads · 06-11-11, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will0W783

I don't agree with using undertank heaters for snakes. Snakes are baskers in the wild...they are evolved to handle overhead sunlight and the resulting heat from that. Does that mean the ground- rocks, dirt, etc- doesn't get hot in their natural climate? No, but excessive belly heat in captivity has been known to lead to constipation, burns, and digestive maladies (What's Wrong with My Snake? by Dr. John Rossi, DVM). It sounds to me like you don't have a good ambient temperature or an adequate gradient, if your described temperatures are indeed correct. I would turn off your heating pad (101 surface temp is a bit hot and may actually be uncomfortable for the snake to crawl across) and rely on your heating lamps only. When we speak of heat gradient, we are speaking of air temperatures, not the surface temperature of a light. Ambient heat would be the steady baseline temperature of the cage not under the light. You want a basking area (6inches-12inches) underneath the light of about 88-90. I would say that the 75 degree cool end is a bit too cold, but the 140 degree basking area is way too hot. Also are you using a digital temp gun to measure your temperatures?

My suggestions to you are to:
1. turn off the heating pad to eliminate belly heat
2. use a substrate that holds in warmth (aspen or cypress mulch are good for this)
3. Recheck your temperatures after 24 hours
4. If you still have such an extreme gradient- you might want to use a smaller wattage bulb and then use one at the hot end and one slightly more to the middle of the cage, to set up a more steady gradient. In my opinion, your hot end is way too hot and your cool end is too cold.
5. Check for mites in the water- remove the snake and pour the water out in increments into a white sink with the drain plugged.

6. Make sure your snake has other hiding places. An insecure snake will often just hang out in the water dish if no hides are provided, as the dish provides a tight spot to wedge into and feel slightly more secure.

Also, keep in mind that Burmese pythons like water. In the wild, they hang out near lakes and swamps. I tend to give my Burm a bathtub soak at least once a week- and he loves it. I let him in the bathroom and start filling up the tub and he will just slither right on into it.

Thank you for taking the time to explain all that. I do use a digital temp gun. I shelled out a decent ammount of money on it because I was under the impression surface temps were the important ones for digestion. I was thinking of using flex watt heat tape to heat 1/3 to 1/2 of her enclosure.

1. It was only on at night when I turned the lamp off.
2. I use cypress mulch.
3. I've tried combos of heat pad/lamp/portable heater outside the viv and it hasn't brought up the inside ambient heat but by maybe a few degress(not worth 1.5 KW/an hour, any more energy efficient ways to bring up ambient?)
4. I will try to post pictures of my enclosure. It's 8' and has only one spot for a recessed basking light, so I can't put one at the other end.
5. She does not have mites. I have dealt with them more than I cared too and i've checked her and the water several times, and I use mite away regularly.
6. I made her a hide and placed it at various places (cold end hot end in between) and she's still in the water in the cold.

Is it unhealthy for her to be in 68-70F water? Because I could put the heating pad under or half under so she's not frozen in there.