A few breeding Qs

[jjnnbns]

I plan on breeding rats for a few months over the summer to build up a small collection of feeders, then feeding off the breeders as well as offspring to my snakes.
I've just got a few questions...

1. Are medium rats old enough to breed? (I'm planning on 1.2 or 1.3)

2. How long do they need to be with their mother (for milk) before they can be put in a new container to be bred to proper size?

3. How long does it take for a rat to grow to a medium size rat?

4. Do I need small airholes in the sides of the enclosure or just the hardware cloth on the lid? Will they be able to gnaw through with the small holes?

5. What is best to use for nests/bedding? Anything cheaper than carefresh? << I thought about throwing some cardboard and 'margerine-type' containers >>

Thanks for any help,
Brent

PS If we decided to do mice too, what would be the NECESSARY changes, ie how long before they can be separated from their mothers?

[sapphire_moon]

I would say get the "small" rats and let them grow a little. That way, you KNOW that they aren't to "old" to breed.

if your asking how long to wean them from their mother, they can be taken away at 3wks, they are really small then.
They can be established in another group, they are "sexualy mature" around 5wks old.

I noticed that when I left my feeders with the mother until they were about 4-4.5 wks old and let the mother wean them herself, the babies were bigger than the ones taken at 3 wks old.

so if you take them away at 3 wks, I would say about 4-5 months to medium size (my 7 month old "pet" rats from one of my very first litters are about large size now.)

and if left with the mother probably about 3-4 months.

Do NOT put holes in the side of the cage, they WILL chew out them. Put the hardware cloth on top. Make a food drop down into the cage, and you can set your water bottle down into that.

I use pine shavings and shredded paper for the bedding for my rats/mice. They hardly if ever sneeze, or have any reactions to it at all.

If the rats are in your room, and they have a cardboard box "hide" then they will rip it to shreds, and keep you awake doing it. Rats are mostly nocturnal. So all their playing is done at night and belive me, their squeeks can get LOUD.

I think mice are the same way, you just have to use a smaller size hardware cloth (1/4'' hardware cloth, hopper mice can get out the 1/2" hardware cloth.)

in both cases make sure that both the food hopper and the water bottles are low enough for babies that are eating solid foods and drinking on their own.

and make sure there are NO lips in the cage, and that the sides are absolutely smooth. If there is a lip, they will find it, and they will chew.

[Jayson]

I agree with almost everything said by sapphire moon, the only thing is my rats are medium size @ 8 weeks for males and 10 weeks for females. and i always remove the babies @ three weeks to the day. (I need to get them out of there to make room for the other litters) I breed females @ 12 weeks and i like to use older and larger males because they are generally better breeders, and live much longer anyway.

[mykee]

If your rats are fed a high quality food, then can reach a safe breeding size (approx. 250g for females) in two and a half months. I allow my males to breed when they get over 200g. Babies should be left with their mothers for at least 3 weeks, or until they begin to eat the same food as the adults. With regards to Carefresh, EVERYTHING is cheaper than Carefresh. You can use pine if you only plan to breed for the summer, but if you plan on breeding long-term, I would strongly recommend that you bed your rats on aspen shavings, it may be a little more expensive then pine, but still TONS cheaper than Carefresh. Good luck.

[Cruciform]

If you have access to a lot of clean scrap paper, invest in a decent shredder. One that makes the inch long pieces.

I haven't been using that strictly, but whatever else you use for bedding, the paper can be used for nests or tunneling in. The mice love it and I don't have to use as much of the storebought bedding in the cage

[jjnnbns]

I have an overabundance of aspen actually, as I no longer use it with my snakes (switched back to newspaper) That would probably work then...

[latazyo]

so you can't have a food dish, there must be a hopper?

[jjnnbns]

I think that you can, but a hopper lets you feed w/o having to get into the cage...

[Cruciform]

I use a food dish with the mice and they waste a LOT of food just by knocking it out of the dish and soiling it.

Like Sapphire said, a food drop is a great alternative. They can just chew on the pellets through the wire.

[justinO]

1. medium rats old enough - yeah, as long as you know they are not too old

2. how long with mom - i leave them until eyes are open (4 weeks)

3. how long til mediums - not sure, we kill off all ours before that point!

4. airholes - yes

5. bedding - pine!!! $5 a bale!!! we use aspen ($11 a bale) cuz it's alot better for them and we find it doesn't 'stick' to the babies like other materials. I always give the new mothers paper towel or something too, but you don't need to. I used to just give them paper towel/toilet paper rolls.

mice - we researched getting into them as well and decided to abandon due to it being a lot harder and a huge pain in the ***.

good luck, and this forum is great for any questions you might have....... i'll look forward to seeing your "they mothers are stealing each others babies!!" posting..... :P

PS. BUILD A RACK!


Jessy & Justin

[annieb_mice]

I generally leave my rats in with their mother until between 4 - 5 weeks. I find that when you take them away earlier they take a LOT longer to mature and grow. They still nurse until about 3 1/2 weeks at least... I've had some that nursed until they were around 4 1/2 weeks. Once they stop nursing completely, I separate them.
I would recommend using a 1/4 - 1/2 inch wire screening. I wouldn't put any holes in the bin itself because they WILL chew it. As for a drop down food hopper, that depends on what you decide to feed them. Generally a drop down hopper is best... but I still have a few cages that have food dishes <mostly my rat cages> and only put in enough food for them to eat in one day.
Depending on what you feed them, rats can get to "medium" size in about 3 - 4 months... longer if they aren't being fed a good diet. I would not recommend breeding a female rat before 3 months of age, but this is only my preference. Some other breeders breed them much younger.
As for bedding... there are several things you can use. I use a thin layer of pine with a good sized handful of shredded paper for bedding and find this works great. Aspen is an excellent bedding, but personally I don't like the smell. Newspaper is cheap, if not free, and all you need is a paper shredder, but you'll have to change it a lot more often. If you go to a farm feed store, you can get a "bale" of pine shavings for about $5, or a larger bag of mixed shavings <no cedar> for about $2 more. There are pro's and con's with every type of bedding.
Good luck...
Annie B. <:3 )~~

[sapphire_moon]

by the way, rats open their eyes around 2wks old

[Batdad]

PS If we decided to do mice too, what would be the NECESSARY changes, ie how long before they can be separated from their mothers?

Major pain, Major stink, only a good idea if you need a lot of the smaller pinkies for new born/hatched snakes