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Old 09-27-04, 02:49 PM   #1
stir-fry
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New to herpetology, lots of questions to ask

Hi, I'm brand new to the herpetology field and would like to ask some questions.

First off, I am thinking of getting a Ball Python but I haven't completely made my mind up yet, so I would still consider another species.

I am in the process of stripping down a freshwater aquarium (I've had it up to *here* with algae and water changes) that is 65 gallons in size. I have been considering getting a snake as a pet for years, and figured now that I have this big piece of real estate what better place to house a snake? However, I am starting to get the feeling that this size tank is going to be WAY too big for one snake. Am I correct in this thinking?

From reading up on the subject, it seems that it's going to be very hard to keep a tank this size properly climatized. Can anyone refute this? Is it just harder or impossible?

What pitfalls would I suffer keeping a Juvenile Ball Python in an enclosure of this size as opposed to keeping them in something smaller (like a big Tupperware container)?

Can Ball Pythons be kept together? Could I put more than one in my enclosure?


If Ball Pythons are not a suitable species for a tank this big, are they any you could recommend?


Next, I was under the impression that once you have tamed your snake and they are adjusted to you, that you could "play with it" (for a lack of a better expression) as often as you liked? However, I'm reading that Ball Pythons should be handled no more than 20 to 30 minutes a month (give or take). Is this a misconception or is my initial impression misconstrued?



I plan on taking very little steps. I am going to start with cleaning/sterilizing/drying my fish tank first as I realize a clean environment is going to be of utmost importance. After this I will probably try to find a suitable place to purchase a snake in the Toronto area (Can anyone recommend any local breeders?) I wandered into the Menagerie pet store on Parliament recently and had a talk with the 'snake guy'. He seemed to really know his stuff, but I noticed that they didn't have any young Ball Pythons. After I decide what snake i'm going to get, i'll probably design the tank around it's needs. I'm hoping to create a terrarium of sorts and maybe incorporate some running water and/or live plants.

I think that's all the questions I have for now. I appreciate any and all information that you can provide me with.

Thanks in advance
Stephen.
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Old 09-27-04, 03:01 PM   #2
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Hey, always nice to see new people picking up the new addiction lol.
I own a ball python personaly and i have got to say it is an amazing snake. The personalilty is great. Nothing is too big, for most species bigger is better. However you will have trouble keeping up the humidity if you plan on getting a Ball Python, therefore id reccomend you making a Humid hide, especailly for when shedding time comes around
And the whole thing about holding Bp's for 20-30 mins a month its ABSOULTELY false. After he/she sets in and gets used to its evironment and after eating a couple times, taking him out every day for 20-30 mins is no problem. Some people say you can keep 2 ball pythons together, but i wouldnt recommend it. Then you get into possible diesease sharing and feeding stress.
Are snakes what ur looking for?, have you ever gave any consideration to a lizard? A couple bearded dragons would be great in a 65 gal, but they are a bit more work.
A bci ( red tailed boa ) would also fit really nice in that tank. however they do get signficantily bigger. Some may be aggresive but talk to most ppl and they will say they can be teddy bears.
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Old 09-27-04, 03:02 PM   #3
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so do your're re search and you'll find exactily what you're looking for.
hopefully that helps
just my 2 cents worth
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Old 09-27-04, 11:57 PM   #4
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Stephen, you ideas are very good ones, and your way of thinking is good, as are your questions.

To answer them (as best I can):

1. Q- Is a 65 G tank harder or impossible to keep the temps/humidity up. A- Not impossible, YES LOTS harder. Glass doesnt hold heat well, and the screen tops most use for tank enclosures don't exactly hold humidity. As for the size, well, a lot of that will depend on the snake you get. For a hatchling BP, I would invest in a 10g setup also and keep him in there until he starts to get cramped. Most snakes prefer tighter smaller spaces, and so a 10g for a hatchling will actually help them to feel safer. You could also start out with a rubbermaid setup, which tend to make it much easier to maintain temps and humidity, for use while your snake is young. If at any time you decide to use the 65 g, make sure you have the "warm side" with a hot spot of 95 degrees, and keep the cool side at 80-85. You could accomplish this with strong enough radiant heat lighting, an undertank heater, or a combination of the two. Humidity can be increased by misting, providing a water source with a good surface area, and covering part of the screen top, as mentioned by Chris. Humid hides are another good idea! A 65 G tank isnt unsuitable, provided you provide a water source large enough for the snake to immerse himself completely and LOTS of hides spread through the tank, it should be fine.

2. Q- the handling thing. A- Well when you first get your snake you should leave it completely ALONE for 2 weeks and avoid spooking it if you can. Give it a chance to adjust to its new surroundings, and the smell of you and your home. I would still keep subsequent handlings short and infrequent. Chris's declaration of ABSOLUTELY FALSE or whatever is only one perspective. Its not about what is POSSIBLE, remember, but about what is BEST for your snake, who is in your care. Learn about snakes postures and what those can mean, and when you sense your snake has had enough, put him back. Remember that snakes don't show emotions like people do. We can't know if they WANT to play with us or not, but we suspect that most of the time, they don't really want too, but moreso are just tolerating our presence as they have come to trust us. Too much activity too fast will definitely freak your snake out, causing him to have bad sheds and making him more susceptible to diseases. Patience is key here. A lot of these factors will ultimately depend on the individual snake, and its own ability to adjust to things, too.

3. Q- Breeders local to Toronto? A- cant help you with this since I live in the states, but most of the breeders listed on the home page here also frequent the forums, and I believe are most all in Canada, so I would browse through those to see who is around.

4. Q- Keeping em together? A- NO! Most all species of snakes are solitary animals, and keeping them together increases your risk for cannibalism, as well as ensuring that if one of your snakes is ill, they all will be. Generally considered a VERY bad idea.

A couple of other things- Ball pythons being among the true constrictors will definitely destroy any plants or "arrangements" you would make in a terrarium style enclosure. If plants is something you would like in your BP setup, (and this is true for many other kinds of snakes, too) I would have to reccomend using sturdy silk plants. Easier to clean, also. If you ever have mites or something that you have to treat your snake and accessories for, then you could soak your plastic plants in a bleach solution, whereas terrarium would have to be totally redone.

Also- Look at the python regius forum for more BP specific stuff, and check out Matt Kameka's BP FAQ, should be one of the first threads in there..

Other species to consider would be Boas (non arboreal) and a cornsnake lacks the more difficult husbandry requirements, but they are much faster moving and can be "whippy" at first.

There are many others on here who may have slightly varied answers for your questions. I admit in advance I am by no means a "guru" on here, but the voices of experience usually know best, and it only takes a little extra effort of searching around on this site to figure out who those folks are generally considered to be.. For BP's in particular, you usually cant go wrong with any of the Mods, Jeff Favelle, invictus, mykee, Tim Cranwill, and a passel of others whose names arent leaping to mind at this late hour. If you get varied advice, its ultimately up to you to determine which is the best advice.

Hope this helps.. and good luck. Got a BP for my first snake and I love him

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Last edited by Artemis; 09-28-04 at 01:29 PM..
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Old 09-28-04, 07:53 AM   #5
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wow, thanks for the wealth of answers artemis, I appreciate it.

Thanks to chong for his answers too..

some food for thought.. bbl when i've digested it
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Old 09-29-04, 09:25 AM   #6
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Also remember that BP's are the #1 reason for hairloss in the field, these guys can and WILL go off feed for who knows how long at the drop of a hat, just remember to be patient.
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Old 09-29-04, 10:32 AM   #7
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I don't have to worry about hairloss.. i'm pretty folically challenged as it is
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Old 10-01-04, 09:21 PM   #8
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dont let anything that you have been hearing so far scare you out of it either. Any animal is going to take a little work. After you get plenty of research in you can decide if you think you will be able to provide the care it needs. I dont claim to know a whole lot about Ball Pythons but i do own one for the first time and ive had it since may of 04' Its very healthy, eats like a garbage disposal haha and gets lots of love and attention. I dont really see taking care of him as a chore but i know that if i was a snake i would like to have decent living conditions and i do what needs to be done. I usually bring mine out once a day unless he has been fed in which case i just wait till hes doing some exploring. Then ill bring him out for no more than 45 minutes usually. I dont let him out of my site but i let him have a little adventure, just well guided Ive never had so much fun taking care of an animal and i never thought i would see my self as someone having a snake. Most people are freaked out that i have a snake but my close friends gave me lots of respect for having one and even opened up to the idea of it. Every once in a while i get a "ooOOOooo can i hold him?" lol! I hope you got some info you needed here. Here are some sites that i checked out when i was doing my research.


http://my.pclink.com/~dkelley/python.html --- just click cancel at login prompt

http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/pytho...lpythons_2.htm

http://www.a1pythons.com/ball.html

http://njnj.essortment.com/ballpythonssna_rdbn.htm

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/CareBall.html

http://www.angelfire.com/al/repticare/page21.html

http://www.wnyherp.org/care-sheets/S...ll-python.html

Hope this helps you out more! I cannot guarentee the accuracy of all these sites but they have helped me in my research and i havent found anything way of track from what im learning here either. Have fun!
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Old 10-08-04, 11:38 AM   #9
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Uhh, I agree with everyone else on this forum. First I keep a bp in a 40 gallon, its kinda hard to keep moisture up and cleaning newspaper is always a mess as it just falls when ur cleaning. But I plan to use bark maulch in a couple days! im gonna have to buy atleast 3 bags so i dont know about a 65 gallon. I think you should not keep any 2 snakes in the same cage because it can stress them and make them go off feed and other problems. Thats wrong to play with ur snake 25-30 minutes a month, you should atleast play with it 15-30 minutes a day but I sometimes get caught up and just walk around the house with him around my neck and watch tv with him If I were to get another species id get a BCI because they dont get to big (10-12) a 65 gallon would last him almost his whole life but you can make a nice home made enclosure if he would get to large!

Just my thoughts
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