inbreeding?

[Wolfus_305]

Hey everybody,

I've been reading a lot about breeding because the genetics interests me. I've noticed a lot of people saying that it's acceptable to breed siblings from the same clutch with each other, as well as breeding offspring to parents.
What do you guys think?

Kendra

[mykee]

I have never bred sib to sib, but have and will continue to breed parent to child for one generation.
I do my best to outcross genetics as often as I can.

[Wolfus_305]

that's interesting, i didn't realize you could do that.

[stephanbakir]

From what I understand, you don't get noticeable issues till you pass the third generation of inbreeding,

[Wolfus_305]

hmm what would possible issues be?
What about half siblings, same thing?

[stephanbakir]

Buggy eyes and minor facial deformations are the only ones I've personally noticed.

[NennaMeerkat]

I guess there is no real problem with it as long as you don't do it over and over and over for several generations...but I would personally never do it. Only a personal preference though.

[Jendee]

They dont call it inbreeding they call it "line breeding" you must breed related snakes if your looking to bring out a certian charastic in a snake, or if your trying to figure out the type of genetics involved. When you get the deformities its usually a weakened line without enough outbreeding. So inline, inline, outline, inline outline, inline, outline, hets unrelated hets bam then you have your own outcrossed line something like that lol

[Wolfus_305]

thanks for the correction

I'm considering getting two het piebalds. The guy said that he has some from different clutches but that they have the same father because he only used one male pied last year. I am asking him how far back they are related. is that a good place to start? I want to make sure i'll have as few complications as possible if in a few years when i'm done school i decide to try breeding.

any suggestions for picking out snakes would be great

[Jendee]

Oh I wasnt correcting you lol it is inbreeding..its just kind of a funny hahaha that people call it "line breeding" so it doesnt sound so bad lol

[Wolfus_305]

ahah you're right, that doesn't sound quite as bad :P

[infernalis]

Two snakes from different bloodlines may not exactly produce the results you are after.

So getting two hets from different bloodlines will most likely not produce any piebald or albinos in the clutch.

if you want to ensure that the same genetic "defect" appears in your litter, chances are greatly enhanced with "line breeding"

[Shmoges]

Originally Posted by stephanbakir

Buggy eyes and minor facial deformations are the only ones I've personally noticed.

We just got a KSB that seems to have buggy eyes and a more slender face than our other KSB's. We were thinking it looked slightly more like a Russian sand boa or rough scale in terms of facial structure.

[mykee]

"So getting two hets from different bloodlines will most likely not produce any piebald or albinos in the clutch."

Not the case with ball pythons, a het albino from Line A will successfully produce albinos when bred to a het albino from Line B.
Same deal for OG's, clowns, axanthics, and ever other recessive ball python morph out there.

"From what I understand, you don't get noticeable issues till you pass the third generation of inbreeding"

Never heard this; so "3" is the number, eh?

Wolfus; breeding step sibs is ok, because they only share one half of their genetic make-up. I breed step sibs (back and forth for five generations now) and have not had an issue.

[infernalis]

I have also seen abbreviated tails, increased stillborns and too many runts.

One of the problems encountered with many snakes, so many people want to become the next "big breeder" and order pairs, many times those pairs are siblings, so here would be an example of where this becomes a problem...

I am using made up names here to prevent slander of anyone.

Stan Smith is a breeder of corn snakes, he produces some of the coolest morphs around.

Peter Griffin is interested in cashing in on the new "caramel candy creamed corn morph" so he places an order with Stan for one male and one female.

Stan ships a pair of siblings to Peter, Peter raises them and breeds them, then he places advertising on queensnake offering his snakes.

Brian and Roger want to breed these same morphs, but they find Peter's prices better than Stan's so they order a pair each from Peter, raise them and breed them....

see where this is heading??

I just happen to know firsthand that several of my snakes were already F4-F5 upon obtaining them.