Live feeding

marisa · 08-17-04, 01:37 PM

Hi freaks! Well I have always been 100% against live feedings for those animals that do not need it, but have also understood that live feeding DOES most certaintly have a place in the herp world.

Anyways, Eight my three year old female Ball will not take FT rats....and no don't tell me to try this and that because I have gone down the list MANY times trying out each options and suggestion, including a "starve her out" which lasted about 7 months....still refused FT. She WILL accept FT mice, however, I am not going to be feeding my ball ten adult FT mice each week.

Right now I am under feeding her.....I give her just weaned live rats, she kills these quickly and without incident so far, and I am WATCHING the entire time like a hawk. I want to move her prey size up (she could take a large adult rat) but at the same time protect her from injury. So far, her appetite and response has gone from 0 to 60 since being offered live. It's actually really nice for once.

What do you guys do to make sure your larger live eating snakes stay injury free?

Marisa

Tim_Cranwill · 08-17-04, 01:48 PM

For balls eating live rats, I just under-size the prey by a bit, i.e. 1x the girth.

marisa · 08-17-04, 01:50 PM

Yeah that's pretty much what I have been doing with her, although even smaller...I have her eating rats about 1/2 her girth right now, just to see how things go....so far she has taken 8 live rats this way over the last two months without any incidents.

Other ideas and ways you guys do it welcome! I'd love to hear more.

Marisa

Invictus · 08-17-04, 02:47 PM

For the snakes I have that only take live mice, I stun them severely. Same method as killing, but don't hit as hard. They will twitch like crazy and the snake will know it's still alive, but the rodent will be otherwise incapable of fighting back.

On another note, have you tried gerbils? Gerbils are more along the lines of a natural diet for BPs, since they are what is most abundantly found in Ghana. I've never tried this myself (I recently traded our BPs, ut I am getting more soon), but I've heard and read that stubborn BPs will usually take gerbils without a second thought.

Jayson · 08-17-04, 04:23 PM

Gerbils do work for wild caught, but i would advise against it if possible because getting a bp hooked on gerbils is worse than mice IMO. Reason being gerbils are harder to find and they do not reproduce very fast.
With patients your ball may decide to start feeding on f/t, just keep trying and of course supervise all live feeding, even when feeding stunned (just in case the rat comes back around)It Happens!!

Vengeance · 08-17-04, 04:30 PM

If I remember correctly Mykee has a few stobber snakes that he is still feeding live. If I remember correctly he used Hemostats to restrain the rodent while the snake killed the animal. He might be able to explain the whole process better though.

mykee · 08-17-04, 04:48 PM

Marisa, I do feed 75% of my adult balls live (stubborn or not). I use a restaining method with my 18" hemostats, that pin the rat, twisted neck skin and fur, so that the rat is on his side, against the floor, virtually immobile. I have fed well over 1000 rats this way without a SINGLE incident.

marisa · 08-17-04, 08:09 PM

Stunning has produced ZERO interest from her....no matter how light or hard we "stun" them....she seems to need the walking back and forth in front of the hide to get her going....not just twitching...but yes I have tried that many times.

Mykee how "upset" does this make the rats? I mean obviously its not fun for them, but do the fight the hemos a lot?

Marisa

daver676 · 08-17-04, 10:11 PM

I'm still feeding live as well. I hate it. I've tried what seems like everything too. She won't even take live off tongs.

Anyway, I first make sure she is awake. lol. I just wave the rat over her hide a couple times and she will usually stick her head out. Then I grab 2 pencils, then set the rat down. Most of then will usually follow the side and that always ends at her hide hole.

As soon as she grabs I get in there with my pencils. One for the mouth, one for the back feet. So far, the only rat damage to the snake has been a little broken skin, which was gone with the next shed anyway.

mykee · 08-17-04, 10:26 PM

Marisa, my rats are fairly docile to begin with, I pick them up by the back of the head, between their ears, and run my hemos to grab a good chunk of top head fat. They don't scream, obviosly they're not pleased, but who would be? As I lay them down on the enclosure floor, they squirm around a bit, but don't get to pi$$ed. If they don't get eaten, they go back in the bin for next time. They may be mad, but I've never been bit, so I 'm not going to complain.

Stockwell · 08-18-04, 01:12 AM

I never did anything special.. just toss em in.
Snakes have been killing their own prey just fine for eons. If the snake is healthy, acclimatized and has been feeding you shouldn't have any significant injuries.
I spent alot of years getting adult Togo imports feeding, and I offered live gerbils, rats and hamsters.
Had a few good tussles, but no significant injuries.. I suspect it's actually quite rare.
Small bite marks or the occasional pierced lip is all I ever saw but never an infection nor long term damage... Snakes are designed to deal with this, and really think keepers worry far too much about it.
My only recommendation would be to avoid adult rats and don't leave live gerbils or rats over night..
If they are ready to feed, they should do so in under an hour otherwise take the feed out and try again later.

robitza · 08-18-04, 11:49 AM

I tried to feed my baby ball a FK mouse today and he refused it. I have tried just about everything aswell. I don't really want to continue to feed live rodents to him. The only thing is starving him out. That is the next test.

My larger ball is taking FK with no problem at all.

I haven't attempted to feed FT. Wife doesn't want frozen rats in the freezer.

marisa · 08-18-04, 12:57 PM

Thanks guys.

Usually if she hasn't snagged the live rat within 15 minutes, she won't eat.....so prolonged time in the enclosure with a live rat just doesn't really happen over here. I am not too worried about that part.

So far she has been VERY capable of not needing any assistance when killing the rats, almost 9 out of ten times she gets a good hold right behind their heads, making it "almost" impossible for them to bite her. I am really not worried about scratches from nails, as these are just weaned rats.

I'll try to keep the rat sizes down, but she really needs large adults. As soon as I get myself a nice pair of 18 inch hemo's, I will take Mykee's advice and give it a shot.

Ugh this whole live feeding thing sucks. Even if they were made for it.

Marisa