How do you get creamcicles?

[MouseKilla]

There are so many morphs these days it's hard to keep it straight what makes what. I was told a Great Plains Rat crossed with an albino Corn makes creamcicles. Is that right??

amelanistic strain created by crossing corns with Great Plains rat snake E.g. emoryi bloodlines

[MouseKilla]

So is that a no??? You lost me.

[marisa]

That is a yes. They are "hybrids"

Marisa

[mikem]

from your local grocers freezer!

[MouseKilla]

Of course the combination I mentioned is some kind of hybrid but do those two make creamsicles? Anyone know?

[marisa]

Yes that is what I am saying to you. A creamsicle is made using those snakes.

Marisa

[Bartman]

mmmmmmmmm

[MouseKilla]

Perfect! Sorry, I'm a little slow.

[MouseKilla]

Is it still a creamsicle if you cross the GP Rat with a snow corn?

[vanderkm]

A creamsicle is an amelanistic result of breeding great plains ratsnake genes into corns because the great plains ratsnake has less red in it than the cornsnake, so the yellow coloration is less obscured by red.

A cross of a great plains rat with an albino corn will not give you creamsicles though - it will produce normal appearing offspring (often termed rootbeer corns because they are a bit browner toned than normal corns) that are het for the amelanisitic (albino) gene. These have to be bred to albino corns or to each other to get the creamsicle (amelanistic) coloration in the next generation.

Breeding a great plains ratsnake to a snow will give you rootbeers that are het for amelanistic and anery A genes of corns. When those offspring are bred together they have a chance of producing creamsicle, rootbeer and what have been called snowcreams (look pretty much like snow corns) - depending on how the genes sort out.

People use the term creamsicle or some variation of it to identify that a line of snakes is intergraded between great plains rats and corns, but it typically refers to the orangish amelanistic version. Many creamsicles are bred from long lines of creamsicles without new introduction of great plains ratsnake genes.

To complicate everything, there is an albino gene in great plains ratsnakes, but it is quite rare (and expensive) so while there is some chance that a normal great plains rat could carry that albino gene and produce creamsicles in a first generation cross, it is quite unlikely.

mary v.

[MouseKilla]

I was wondering how it could possibly occur in the first generation because of the absence of an amelanistic gene on the part of the Rat snake. The way I heard it was if you cross a GPRat with an albino corn you will get creamsicles. After doing some homework I learned that you can't have amelanistic offspring without both parent animals being at least het for amelanism. DUH! The problem has been though that until you explained it I still couldn't figure out exactly how they are produced. So it looks like I'm going to be a generation away from what I thought I was trying to breed this season but that's alright, I'm sure we'll learn a lot from doing it anyway and end up with a few different varieties in the long run. Anyone know of a good corn gentics site or better yet a book?

[vanderkm]

The best site for genetics info on corns that I am aware of is http://www.serpwidgets.com/cornsnakes/default.html - lots of background material on genetics basics as well as color and pattern inheritance info. There is also a downloadable genetics calculator that allows you to calculate what morphs you will get from various different breedings that is great to use. I got it through a link on Kathy Love's site (Micks Cornsnake Progeny Predictor).

So you must have a great plains ratsnake then - any chance of sharing photos. We have a female that we bought as GPRat that we are incorporating into our creamsicle program this year but I would be very interested to see more examples of them,

mary v.

[MouseKilla]

Yes, I do have an adult male GP Rat and I'm picking up the female Snow Corn tomorrow afternoon. I'm going to have them both probed by someone that knows what they're doing just to verify the sexes then start cooling them both immediately. We're excited to get started on our first breeding project and hopefully it all works out. I've already spent the better part of a day downloading that progeny predictor (we're in the dark ages over here, running at 28.8, good God I need a new computer!) and it's handy but it didn't have the option to add the Emoryi. I stumbled on serpentwidgets myself and learned quite a bit about the basics of recessive traits and so on. I'll get some pics of the GP Rat and get them dropped to a CD (my ancient relic here has no USB port) so I can upload them... if I can figure out how to get a pic down to the 25 K you need to attach them..? Anyhow, he's a cool looking animal (for some reason non-herpers that come by the house often ask if he's a rattler LOL! Who knows why.) He is very tame and seems to have no use for a hide, he's got one of those plastic fake rock hides which he lays on top of most of the time.

[lizardmom]

ohh you from da shwa,, where you gettin you snake-just curious,,
lizardmom