pearl morphs

[krystle]

am posting this thread because i wanted to see if anyone knew if pearl in brbs is a recessive trait or more like a polygenic? i dont question the credibility of who i have asked already because they have given me good info, but i am getting conflicting info. i have found a boy for my female but i just dont know if i will get pearls crossing with a normal. i have been doing research and i cant come up with an indefinite answer i keep hearing that you can get pearls from doing a normal x pearl, i just dont know with it being such a new morph!

[marvelfreak]

We have a few BRB breeders on here i am sure one will be along soon that can help.

[Strutter769]

I have had contact with a highly respected breeder who was successful in creating a,select number of "Pearls" from a Pearl x Normal pairing. I also recently purchased two bullseye siblings who have a very good chance of producing Pearls, as the Sire was a Pearl.

It is also my understanding that it is not yet truly known if Pearl is Co-dominant, or polygenic.

I believe I am correct; however, I am CERTAIN, you'll get a response from someone much more knowledgeable than myself.

Good luck in all your breeding projects!

[krystle]

thanks this is good info

Originally Posted by Strutter769

I have had contact with a highly respected breeder who was successful in creating a,select number of "Pearls" from a Pearl x Normal pairing. I also recently purchased two bullseye siblings who have a very good chance of producing Pearls, as the Sire was a Pearl.

It is also my understanding that it is not yet truly known if Pearl is Co-dominant, or polygenic.

I believe I am correct; however, I am CERTAIN, you'll get a response from someone much more knowledgeable than myself.

Good luck in all your breeding projects!

[Rainbowsrus]

I have had two litters of pearl x non pearl.

1) Pearl x Normal (2010) resulted in a small litter of 7 babies none of which were Pearls.

2) Pearl x Hypo resulted (2011) in a small litter of 9 babies with two pearls but the litter was also mostly female and could be parthogenic. Am sending sheds out for analysis.

In 2011 I also produced three litters of Pearl x Pearl babies ALL showing Pearl to one degree or another. Some very bold bullseyes in the respective piles but clearly Pearl related.

1) Aubergine x Biwa - 14 babies including some with connected dorsal to lateral patterns I'm calling Zebra stripes.

2) Akoya x Baroque - 15 babies all Pearls

3) Apricot x Biwa - 8 babies, all pearls, including two with extreme zebra striping.


So, from those results, 2/16 Pearl x normal = Pearl is very low for dominant, could be polygenic or the two could be mom clones - parthogenic - already proven to happen in CRB.

Also 37/37 Pearl x Pearl were Pearl to one degree - Recessive or polygenic.


IMO is most likely Recessive, second most likely is Polygenic and last would be Dominant. None of my results would fit Co-dominant.

[krystle]

Thanks Dave this gives me a lot to think about. I guess the next question is it worth it for me to get him?

[Snakesitter]

Id be careful of anyone selling a pearl as a "morph," Krystle. They have not been nailed down enough IMO; as Dave noted, the genetics are far from certain. Most of what I have seen and read so far suggests pearl, and most of the side pattern variants in fact, are polygenetic, maybe even line-bred. But it could be recessive as well!

As for whether to get him...if you like the snake's looks and are comfortable with the breeder, go for it!

[millertime89]

can one of you guys explain the difference between a dom and a co-dom? My understanding is that a dominant x normal will yield 50/50, same as co-dom, or am I mistaken? I'm confused here.
Also, what is Polygenic? That's a new one to me as I haven't yet encountered it in my readings on (mostly) retic genetics.

[Rainbowsrus]

Originally Posted by millertime89

can one of you guys explain the difference between a dom and a co-dom? My understanding is that a dominant x normal will yield 50/50, same as co-dom, or am I mistaken? I'm confused here.
Also, what is Polygenic? That's a new one to me as I haven't yet encountered it in my readings on (mostly) retic genetics.

Heterozygous - having two different genes within a gene pair.

Homozygous - having two of the same genes within a gene pair.

Phenotype - Visual expression of a trait.

Dominant = Morph gene stronger expression than normal so even if only one morph gene the trait shows. (2 Phenotypes normal and morph)

"Super" slang phrase widely used to describe the Homozygous morph (both genes morph genes)

Co-Dominant, same as Dominant except the "Super" form has a third visual expression. Normal, Heterozygous and Homozygous

Polygenic, Trait caused by multiple gene pairs.

[millertime89]

so polygenic would be something like a snow (anery/albino(amel)?

a dominant x normal will throw 50/50, but a dominant x dominant will only throw dominants since dominants don't have a "super" (homozygous) form?

did I get that right?

I appreciate it Dave. I'm trying to wrap my head around genetics for future uses.

[Rainbowsrus]

Originally Posted by millertime89

so polygenic would be something like a snow (anery/albino(amel)?

a dominant x normal will throw 50/50, but a dominant x dominant will only throw dominants since dominants don't have a "super" (homozygous) form?

did I get that right?

I appreciate it Dave. I'm trying to wrap my head around genetics for future uses.

Yes, Snow is technically a polygenic trait but it's more typically used to describe a single trait that takes multiple gene pairs to accomplish without individual combined traits.


If you meant to say Dominant x Dominant can not throw a visual super form then yes, you are correct.

If you meant to say that Dominant x Dominant would result in all dominant babies than no, you are not correct.


Dominant x Dominant pairing assuming each are hets would result in...

Genotype - 1/4 Super, 1/2 Dominant, 1/4 Normal
Phenotype - 3/4 Dominant, 1/4 Normal

The point some people have a hard time with is that Super is not necessarily visual. Perfect example that I have personal experience is Super Ghost (in BCI). A Ghost is a Hypo Anery, a Super Ghost looks almost identical to a Ghost but has two Hypo Genes. ALL babies from a Super Ghost no matter what it's bred to will have a minimum of one Hypo gene and one Anery Gene (visual Hypo).

I've seen it many times where Herp people are using "Dominant" to describe a Homozygous animal ie Dominant Hypo for Super Hypo

Remember.....

Dominant = form of expression where the Morph gene is stronger than the wild type gene and will express with only one gene (typically looks very similar if not identical when two genes are present)

Co-Dominant = form of expression where morph gene is stronger than wild type gene AND there is a clear third phenotype when two morph genes are present.

Example Motley, Co-dominant trait in BCI...

2 normal genes = normal pattern
1 Motley gene and one normal gene = Motley pattern
2 Motley genes = Purple patternless

Super = slang for homozygous

Genotype = A description that is directed towards the actual genes present.

Phenotype = A description of the visual appearance of an individual animal.

ie Albino het Snow (Genotype) = Albino (Phenotype)


Always glad to help....

[krystle]

wow dave good info!

[KORBIN5895]

Originally Posted by Rainbowsrus

Yes, Snow is technically a polygenic trait but it's more typically used to describe a single trait that takes multiple gene pairs to accomplish without individual combined traits.


If you meant to say Dominant x Dominant can not throw a visual super form then yes, you are correct.

If you meant to say that Dominant x Dominant would result in all dominant babies than no, you are not correct.


Dominant x Dominant pairing assuming each are hets would result in...

Genotype - 1/4 Super, 1/2 Dominant, 1/4 Normal
Phenotype - 3/4 Dominant, 1/4 Normal

The point some people have a hard time with is that Super is not necessarily visual. Perfect example that I have personal experience is Super Ghost (in BCI). A Ghost is a Hypo Anery, a Super Ghost looks almost identical to a Ghost but has two Hypo Genes. ALL babies from a Super Ghost no matter what it's bred to will have a minimum of one Hypo gene and one Anery Gene (visual Hypo).

I've seen it many times where Herp people are using "Dominant" to describe a Homozygous animal ie Dominant Hypo for Super Hypo

Remember.....

Dominant = form of expression where the Morph gene is stronger than the wild type gene and will express with only one gene (typically looks very similar if not identical when two genes are present)

Co-Dominant = form of expression where morph gene is stronger than wild type gene AND there is a clear third phenotype when two morph genes are present.

Example Motley, Co-dominant trait in BCI...

2 normal genes = normal pattern
1 Motley gene and one normal gene = Motley pattern
2 Motley genes = Purple patternless

Super = slang for homozygous

Genotype = A description that is directed towards the actual genes present.

Phenotype = A description of the visual appearance of an individual animal.

ie Albino het Snow (Genotype) = Albino (Phenotype)


Always glad to help....

Can this post be stickied into a genetics thread?

[Snakesitter]

Great answer, Dave!