Brumation temps - to low?

Sean Day · 12-14-04, 11:38 AM

I know the ideal temps for most kings and milks are in the 50 - 55 range. I'm wondering where the danger zone is on the low end of these temps?

I have been averaging 48 to 52 the last few weeks, but this morning noticed it got close to 45 sometime overnight.

Thanks
Sean

Jeff_Favelle · 12-14-04, 11:50 AM

I wouldn't go below 55F. I aim for 55-60F.

Sean Day · 12-14-04, 11:59 AM

Looks like I will have to look at options to ad a small amount of heat. What risks are there dropping below 55F ?

marisa · 12-14-04, 02:09 PM

Some mountain kingsnakes/milks can be brumated as low as in the 40's!!! I have read this and talked about this on a number of occasions online. But anyways.

I had my temps dip down to around 48 before. Everything went fine. I was more concerned about the fluctuation than the temp of 48. I think you sound like everything is going fine. But--

I am no where NEAR a brumation expert and I am sure some of the guys can really tell you how it is. :P

Marisa

Sean Day · 12-14-04, 03:39 PM

I have brumated with an average of 50 before with no ill effects. I was under the impression that it was better to be a littler closer to 50F then 60F. Always thought that if you get a warm day and start to get much above 60F you start to risk the chance of respiratory infections?

Jayson · 12-14-04, 04:05 PM

One year my temps actually dropped to 30^ one night , this was a completly accidental thing and not likly in anyway a good thing. However all went well anyhow.
I believe that @ a depth of 6' in the ground the earth is always about 46^ no matter what the season and here in southern Ont. many spiecies hyburnate at this depth.
Of course this could be and likly is very different for more southern species.

MarcB · 12-14-04, 06:19 PM

Gradual fluctuation in temps is not harmful and is in fact beleived to be beneficial.

Low and high end fluctuation happens all the time in nature!

The best is to aim for an average of 55 and you'll be fine.

Classic · 12-14-04, 07:50 PM

I was able to cool my pueblans and hondos at 50-52 last year. They were fine. This year is 59-60 due to my new location. We'll have to see if there is a quality and quantity difference in the coming season.

Brian
HWH

Stockwell · 01-13-05, 05:43 PM

I normally have two systems, one set for 55F and a back up set for 52 incase the first heater can't keep up, or fails. So my target temp is 55F
I have some experience with a friends Cal kings that were brumated in a cold closet measured in the upper 30's and 40's..... Not a pretty sight
They were semi limp noddles in the Spring, with mobility problems,which lasted for months. Occasional dips of short duration might be fine, but Extremely low, prolonged temps under 50 should be avoided, as they seem to do damage with some species.

Manitoban Herps · 01-13-05, 06:55 PM

All of my kingie and milkie books say go between 48-55, I have my cali at 51-53 right now

Will · 01-13-05, 06:59 PM

Most of mine were at 55-60F, but with the cold(-40C) temps the last week or so, I noticed it got down to just below 50F in that corner of the basement. I shot the Raytek at one of the Cal Kings' and she registered a 'balmy' 8.4C body temp...

Some may go lower, but at 50F I really start to get nervous. Naturally, I moved them somewhere slightly warmer.

Brandon Osborne · 01-13-05, 11:26 PM

A friend of mine experienced ice in his water bowls one year. All snakes came out fine and produced nice healthy clutches and litters. There were several Mid-Baja rosies in there and all produced perfect healthy babies.

I have experienced dips into the mid and upper 30's for periods of around a week with no ill effects. I try to shoot for an average temp of 50 F. I don't worry about temps fluctuating high or low. Dipping to 40 doesn't worry me one bit. In my opinion, getting into the 60 degree range will sometimes cause problems. Shoot for 50 and you'll be fine.

Brandon Osborne

C.m.pyrrhus · 01-18-05, 03:29 PM

Quote:

I know the ideal temps for most kings and milks are in the 50 - 55 range. I'm wondering where the danger zone is on the low end of these temps?

Quote:

I wouldn't go below 55F. I aim for 55-60F.

It highly depends on what you are brumating. Most commercially propagated colubrids are brumated just fine at temps averaging 55°(F), although the lot of them are not montane and do not require the colder temps and longer periods of inactivity through brumation. Although, I would recommend at least 50° for an average temperature, as temps may be off by +/- 5°. You should never go above 60° or risk having health problems. Montane species (such as L. p. pyromelana) should be getting an average temp of 45°. These snakes benefit from colder temps, as they naturally receive them yearly in their natural environments. Many will see near freezing temps at some time during their life. I have had my snakes’ temps as low as 35° without any problems, although this surely should be avoided. If they could not handle these temps, we surely would not have them around today!

The "Commercially Acceptable Temp" is simply that, albeit not natural in any technical means, just a simple standard.

Every single snake I have brumating is a WC native to AZ, and each gets the same temps. Most are montane species, although many are not. I keep an average of 45-50°, although do see temps as low as 40° regularly through every cycle. Nearly every herper I know of here in Arizona uses our natural temps for our brumating needs (yes it does get cold enough here for that). It is extremely rare for any of us to find that our stock has succumbed to health problems from lower than the average "Commercially set" temps. It is just as risky to have to warm a temp than to cold a temp, and I would prefer it colder than warmer to be quite honest.