venomous 123

[redneckherpin]

As i was looking at pictures of people with venomoids and people doing crazy things with fully Hot specimens i realized some things. As i am young and can not own a venomous animal yet i have been around people who do, asking them questions and seeing there perspectives on things. I have come to the thought there are 3 kinds of people with venomous reptiles 1. the people that dont own them and cant even look at them in fear. 2. people who own them for the reaction they get when they tell someone "i own venomous reptiles". and 3. the kind of people who own them for there beauty and the joy they get out of owning such a magnificent creature. As i looked at the pictures of these men taking fully Hot snakes, kissing them on there mouths, free handling them and from the stories i have heard from people that own venomous snakes and own them with respect, that the kind of people in 2. that i mentioned above will be the cause for the stop of future owning of venomous reptiles,or making the age to do so a whole lott longer and the process to get a permit more intense. I am to young to own them or even think about it in fact but i have my eye on a few species. What i am trying to say is young hobbyist like myself will not have the opportunity to own these creatures because of people i mentioned in #2.

[Campbellvenomou]

"free-handling" is what you call the unretrained handling of intact snakes. This practice is at best a time bomb that will result in bites. At worst a stupid thing to do because you could get someone else bit. Your use of groups is incredibly vague, and needs clarifying, or simplifying. People who are so afraid of snakes, do not just shy from hot snakes, so group one is a group that hates snakes, not just hots. Problem with snake haters and ophidiophobes is they are never going to care with whether or not you should be able to keep them. People who keep these animals for the thrill, frankly eliminate themselves sooner or later either through the fact they are keeping specimens outside legal means to do so and get caught, or they get bit. Does this impact the future of herpetoculturists rights to keep hot snakes? Yes. Any time something happens that can be grabbed by the media for a good story is going to cause harm, and tumultuous fallout legislatively speaking. Serious keepers will never cease to obtain the permits needed, the facilities needed, the insurance, the ability to say "yep, inspected facility, permitted and safe". That said as a young man looking at keeping hots, realize that owning hots is a tremendous responsibility. I suggest you read Mustangs posts on responsibility, and realize that to anyone willing to set high standards will find the permits.

[Mustangrde1]

The people you describe in the first are people that will not own snakes anyway so they are a moot argument.

The people you describe in the second are actually two separate groups. First is the Handlers and persons that perform exhibitions. In many countries it is a way of life and of livelihood and these people are very good at what they do. However when you come to the United States and its handlers for Exhibition most "not all" of these people are extremely good at what they do they have a second nature a 6th since if you will for what the animal will do along with a high degree of knowledge in manipulation of the reptile. The Latter are just Macho boys that will sooner or later get there rewards for tempting fate one time too many. Those are the ones that put our hobby at risk.

The third group are the keepers put a great deal of time and energy with research and passion in to the keeping of these animals. Most of them can tell you just about anything you would ever want to know and most use the tools of the trade for handling these animals. Even at their best there is still risk involved. I just finished giving a Spitting Cobra oral medication and received a wonderful venom bath. This is an animal that I know whenever I have to give it oral meds IM going to get that so I take precautions such as glasses and latex gloves "gloves because I have an open wound on my hand." Many people don;t stop to think about that and what goes in to keeping these animals. This is something Hot keepers need to constantly think about the safety of everything involved from the snakes to yourself and the precautions needed.

As to the permitting problems you bring up. It is far better to live in a state with a permitting system then one without one as it is far more difficult to change a law then it is to make one. In other words, Once a system is in place and a matter of law it takes more of an action to change the law then it would to create a new law. Also with permitting systems it helps keep people out of the hobby that have no business in it anyway.

With permitting requiring a Year for instance in Florida it gives a person one full year to see if they really can handle the hots "a cooling off period if you will."

With the 1000 hours required under a trainer it is another safety orientated issue where you have to be watched and trained by an experienced keeper and if you mess up bad enough they will not sign you off and the word gets around to other keepers about maturity level of a person. An immature person will not be able to get trained and hence not own venomous.

Along with the requirements you must have knowledge of the species you wish to own as part of the permitting system it also insures to some degree the animals health and well being. You are required to have knowledge of the Care, Feeding, Handling I.E. overall Husbandry of the animal for which you seek the permit.

Then comes the review of your application from the state if its not in order you wont get a permit. If they find everything in order it then goes to your local officer for inspection and if they feel you have met all obligations for caging and safety they sign you off if not you don't get the animal.

I am all for permitting as it forces people to learn and have experience before getting the animal with many checks involved to be certain the person is worthy of the animal. These checks help weed out people that do not have any business working with venomous reptiles at all. Also along the way it gives the trainee a chance to interact with other keepers. That in itself is a major bonus when and if a time comes you need help with animals you will have a few known contacts that can aid you from advise to hands on help.

[cobraman]

Red neck
I am curious to hear which of the three catagories you would place Bill Haast.