Tub heights

chairman · 03-18-16, 07:51 AM

I'm looking to put together racks for ball pythons that will include all the tubs I need for a beginner's breeding group. I was thinking one rack with ten 6 qt tubs, ten 16 qt tubs, and a 41 qt tub. Figured that would house a single female and a standard clutch through 400-500 grams. A separate rack of 28 qt tubs would house males.

But as I was looking at tubs, I was wondering why people use the 28 qt tubs instead of 56 qt tubs. Or 41 qt tubs instead of 80 qt tubs. The pairs I listed have roughly the same footprint, just different heights. Does the extra height cause issues? Or could I go with the taller tubs and be fine?

**Aaron_S** · 03-18-16, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chairman

I'm looking to put together racks for ball pythons that will include all the tubs I need for a beginner's breeding group. I was thinking one rack with ten 6 qt tubs, ten 16 qt tubs, and a 41 qt tub. Figured that would house a single female and a standard clutch through 400-500 grams. A separate rack of 28 qt tubs would house males.

But as I was looking at tubs, I was wondering why people use the 28 qt tubs instead of 56 qt tubs. Or 41 qt tubs instead of 80 qt tubs. The pairs I listed have roughly the same footprint, just different heights. Does the extra height cause issues? Or could I go with the taller tubs and be fine?

You could be fine with the taller tubs/rack.

FWK · 03-18-16, 09:27 AM

Yeah, you could probably get away with it, but what would be the point? Not only would the extra head space be a waste on Ball Pythons, it may even make them uncomfortable. We all know how much Ball Pythons like small spaces. The extra air volume means you'll have that much more air to heat and humidify, reducing the efficiency of the enclosures and possibly make them more difficult to dial in. They would also cost more to build and take up more space in the room. I don't see a plus to using tall tubs for Ball Pythons.

chairman · 03-18-16, 10:58 AM

It is my observation that keepers use 6" tall tubs for their pythons from the time that their diameter is 1" to when their diameter is 4". Proportionally it doesn't make sense that the space doesn't stress neonates but would an adult. That said, snakes aren't very good at math, so I figured that I'd check here for feedback.

My ball python seems very active in his tub, leading me to wonder whether he'd benefit from more space. My cornsnake spends most of his time in a pencil box but he does leave it to cruise... I figured that I could provide a hide and give the python the same opportunity. Could result in better body tone, possibly a stronger feeding response.

I'm not overly concerned about being able to regulate temps and humidity, those logistics should not be too challenging. As for space, you can only stack snakes so high before they become a pain to deal with anyway, so I figure that an extra 6" per shelf isn't going to be that limiting.

FWK · 03-18-16, 12:54 PM

Righto, I see where you are coming from. I'm sure others will be along shortly to tell you what you want to hear. To confirm, as it were.

bigsnakegirl785 · 03-18-16, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWK

Yeah, you could probably get away with it, but what would be the point? Not only would the extra head space be a waste on Ball Pythons, it may even make them uncomfortable. We all know how much Ball Pythons like small spaces. The extra air volume means you'll have that much more air to heat and humidify, reducing the efficiency of the enclosures and possibly make them more difficult to dial in. They would also cost more to build and take up more space in the room. I don't see a plus to using tall tubs for Ball Pythons.

I really don't think that's true. If that was the case, my ball python would never have made it the first 5 years of his life when he had a 3.5' tall cage with a tree to climb in, and he wouldn't be eating now with a 2' tall cage, he wouldn't have made it in his tub with almost 14" of height, and he wouldn't have made it in his 6'x2'x3'. But he's eaten in all these set ups, and comes out to explore almost every night. He seems to enjoy his basking shelf and uses it once the lights go out, although not the past day or two since he just ate.

Sure, the head space may be a waste if you had something like 2' of space without something to climb on, but I doubt either of those tubs are so tall the snake couldn't even reach the top. In which case, the height won't be wasted because the snake can use that height to lift themselves up. The space could be wasted as you say, but it isn't going to stress the snake out if it has enough hiding places. It's up to OP if they want to use it.

Albert Clark · 03-18-16, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chairman

I'm looking to put together racks for ball pythons that will include all the tubs I need for a beginner's breeding group. I was thinking one rack with ten 6 qt tubs, ten 16 qt tubs, and a 41 qt tub. Figured that would house a single female and a standard clutch through 400-500 grams. A separate rack of 28 qt tubs would house males.

But as I was looking at tubs, I was wondering why people use the 28 qt tubs instead of 56 qt tubs. Or 41 qt tubs instead of 80 qt tubs. The pairs I listed have roughly the same footprint, just different heights. Does the extra height cause issues? Or could I go with the taller tubs and be fine?

Sounds like a good plan to start up a beginners breeding group. Congrats! IMO, the reason people use the smaller tubs is bc the whole idea and concept behind racks is to be a space saver for people who plan on having large collections. Either you want a vision / exhibit enclosure/s or you want to house your reptiles in a space saving area. Some people do have both. Ball pythons are very forgiving as long as the basics are met. Basics being heat, humidity , basking spot, and food. Of course water. To top off the basics is cleanliness! That is also what racks and tubs are great for. Keeping the enclosure clean. Oversized tubs are really not necessary when your breeding. It's proven that they do well in smaller spaces overall. Most people who have large scale breeding operations don't have the time to handle or "pet" their charges. I know your referencing beginner's breeding but you should consider what's working for what your intentions are in the hobby/ industry. If your breeding or exhibiting you want to keep your waste to a minimum.

chairman · 03-18-16, 06:04 PM

I originally stayed away from ball pythons because of their reputations as divas. Eventually I figured out that, for the most part, the divas tended to live in aquariums and the non-problem snakes lived in tubs. Obviously there are exceptions in both camps.

Mine are doing great in their "small" tubs. I'd like them to continue to be consistent feeders, etc. If a tall tub just means that I sacrifice space but the snake benefits, I'm good with that. But if I'm increasing the likelihood of having problems then I'll stick to the standard tubs. No sense inviting problems.

bigsnakegirl785 · 03-18-16, 09:23 PM

It's all up to you. A properly-decorated large enclosure isn't going to cause problems. It's not big spaces inherently that put snakes off food, and it's ludicrous to think so. It's a big enclosure that doesn't have enough hiding spots that causes problems. A snake should be able to move from one end to the other without breaking cover, and sometimes for juvenile snakes putting some sort of visual blocker in front of their hides helps, too.

I have always kept my ball python in enclosures bigger than the norm, and the 106 qt is my personal limit for how small I'll go with him. There was barely room for his hides and a dish in there. The height was ok, though.

Even though I've kept him in a 4.5'x2'x3.5' (rough dimensions going off memory), a 6'x2'x3', and now a 4'x2'x2', I've never had my ball python go off of food because he cage was "too big." He's only gone off food if I've moved residences, changed enclosures, the one time he escaped, and the times I've tried to change his food source. So, I wouldn't worry about the added height causing problems, because it really shouldn't. But it's up to you to determine what you want to do as far as space-saving goes. I know a couple breeders who make sure each and every breeding animal has full-sized PVC enclosures, so it can be done even if you want to use racks with the added height. Just depends on if you're doing it for money or for fun, and how fast you want everything up and running.