Need some help with ETB baby

agspecialties · 02-19-16, 10:30 PM

I have had snakes for many years. I have had snakes from Red Tail boas to Ball pythons to Retic pythons.
I have always wanted a ETB and found one. I received him four weeks ago. I have had him in a nice little tank with 100 watt red light with a reptile heat pad on the bottom of the tank. Stays 80 to 85 on the bottom and 80 up in the air. I have a mister going in his tank and have maintained 70 to 80 % humidity. I waited 10 days and tried to feed him and he took a live rat pinkie. I was happy. That was 10 days ago. I tried to feed him two days ago a frozen mouse pinkie and he didn't want that. So I stopped. Last night he was normal, he came down from his perch and drank a little water and back up to his perch he went. Now tonight, I heard a weird noise and notice he was blowing little bubbles. OH ****!!!!!!!!! I know what that means. I am sitting here scratching my head as to why. My temp is good, my humidity is good.....what am i missing??? I cranked up the heat a little more tonight to see if he was cold. Funny thing is he is always on the cold side of the tank. Since I have got him, He has had a little piece of shed that he has been working on and still hasn't got that off. Could that be a problem?? Also last night his finally pooped and that looked just fine too. For the life of me, I can't figure out how the hell he got a respiratory infection. Other problem is I live in Nebraska where we have no kind of vet for snakes. Cows yes, Snakes no. Do any of you guys have any other ideas ?????

Oleman · 02-20-16, 01:34 AM

Try lowering your humidity at night to allow some dry time. Its possible that the RI could have been caused by the humidity at high levels for extended periods of time.
If i remember right i always kept my ETBs at about 82 for the ambient with a hotspot of about 90. Your temps being slightly lower with a constant humidity above 70% may have caused some unwated growth. This becomes more of an issue with restricted ventilation.
That about all i can help with.
I live in Montana so i know how ya feel about no vets who are familiar with reptiles.
Hope your able to clear it up quick.

agspecialties · 02-20-16, 06:51 AM

I was doing some double checking and noticed that the humidity in the tank was only about 55%. I put another humidity gage in the tank and noticed that the old one was not reading the right humidity. So, I put two new gages in the tank and they read the same. The humidity was only at 55%. So i have increased the humidity to 70% and have increased the ambient temp to 85 and have it about 80 on the cooler side of the tank. Hoping for the best right now.

jpsteele80 · 02-20-16, 07:14 AM

I agree with giving some dry air time, i have a GTP (not an ETB but along the same lines) I spray the cage cage at night pretty good for humidity and it has till the next night to dry out, i lower the cage temp at night as well so it doesn't create to much humidity. Imho i think the heat pad is doing you absolutely no good what so ever, this is an aboreal species and they don't come to the ground to warm up from belly heat, when i got my GTP i had almost the same exact issues as you were having and it's because its the wrong setup plain and simple. I had her in a glass top cage with a light and everything just like you do waiting for my cage to arrive and she didnt eat the whole time. These guys aren't like ball pythons or other snakes where you can be way to the left of conditions or way to the right and them still be ok, there is a very narrow window for these guys to thrive and until you get it right he will continue to go down hill. Also a lot of these guys will not eat in front of you, you may have to put food in there and walk away and come back to see if its gone, with my GTP if she see's me while she is eating she will drop it thinking its more food and i will have to start all over again.

agspecialties · 02-20-16, 04:12 PM

Here is my set up. I have a mister that goes off every 45 minutes and mist in the air distilled water for .4 seconds. It maintains a 70 to 75% humidity. Under the light, the air temp is 83 and away from the light the air temp is 78. On the base of the tank is a under tank heater. Where the heater is, 90 and cool side is 80. Now with that mister going off every 45 minutes, when it mist water in the air, the humidity shoots up to 70 to 75 than in the 45 minutes, the humidity will slowly works its self down to the low 60's. If i shut that mister off, the humidity will drop in 20 minutes to 40%.
I have done some research on RI's and might try to do the Vick vapor rub treatment for a couple of days and see if that helps. You guys are mentioning dry air. Should I set up another light and have it cooler and no humidity during the night? I am really afraid of that maybe.

Guide to Home Treatment for Respiratory Infections (R.I) With Pics - Reptile Forums

yeloowtang · 02-23-16, 10:35 AM

I would start by getting a ceramic heat emitter and remove the red light.
seal off the top completely and only leave an opening for the heat emitter.
the top perch try and get max 85 at that spot and lower section can be 78-80.
the preffered temps for an ETB is more in the 82 range.
humidity ??? I think is wrong!!! if you are spraying every 45 mins, having a damp cage with water dripping all over it is not like having humidity.
you have proven this yourself by spraying every 45 mins and the gage says 55%
that red light is sucking up all the humidity like a chimney.
best to not spray the animals directly or if so very little.
you should spray once a day to get it up in the 80-90% then it need to drop over a period of 24h down to 60%
that cage is also big for a small neo, he can be ok but add more perches (use suction cups) to get nice small perches in a horizontal way and add some plants in there (lots of plants). that little one needs to feel secure and safe, with glass on all 4 and no way to hide.. this can stress him/her and stress with too wet of a cage will result in a RI
I know you mean well with the misting but it's best to do this by hand.
even if it's not as nice, you should use paper towels or puppy pads on the floor. easier to keep clean and you can see if too much water builds up, this WILL create bacteria that will in turn attached to the RI. you will now have two things to treat.
to sum it all up.
--seal the top and get a ceramic heat emitter or best a heat panel inside & fully seal top.
- stop spraying so much, once in the morning so humidity builds up and goes down over time.
- when you open the cage every day to spray and change water bowl, this will VENT the cage.
- create privacy for the little one, plants with vines.
- use paper towels or puppy pads for now until you can control the humidity and parameters.
- they eat every 7-10 days and always wait for poop after a third meal.

substrate looks good but you can't see what is dwelling in it, and it's never a good thing.
when you spray, spray the floor, plants and having it sealed , this will keep humid hot air inside the cage. as i mentioned, having a soaked up cage is not creating humidity at all, it's just wet. the fun thing about paper towels or puppy pads, when they are soaked in the morning, as they dry out they produce humidity, since the top is sealed off, it stays inside and slowly drops because of the front vents on the cage.
keep a verrrrry close eye on it, if that RI doesn't go away, it will need to be treated.
either with IM injections or oral antibiotics, if you go to a vet make sure they give you 31gauge insulin needles, they are super thin and won't hurt the snake as much. as you treat, you will need to keep the cage strerile, cleaned every day and a clean fresh water bowl at the same time.
never inject bellow the lower first half of the snake.
raise the heat a little but never higher than 90 at the top perch, even 90 is dangerous for these guys.. so make sure it has lower temps accessible with perches.. if he eats while treated, this is great news..

best of luck

jpsteele80 · 02-23-16, 04:28 PM

At the very least do what yeloowtang said, if i were you i would look to scrap that set up all together and get the right caging requirements, like i said there is a very narrow window for these guys to thrive in and i would just take him to the vet and get it fixed now, your not giving him really any other place to sit but that one spot, he may not be warm enough but cant get any higher. Look into something like this he will be able to move to where he needs to be and adjust accordingly.

jpsteele80 · 02-23-16, 06:55 PM

Sorry you have 2 spots there he can sit, if you notice in the pic above where my green tree is sitting its right under the RHP, i keep that hot spot at 88 and she spends most of her time sitting there but an RHP gives a different kind of heat, it penetrates the the body better and it wont dry out the air like a heat bulb will, a CHE will heat like an RHP but the only drawbacks is CHE's get hot to the touch where an RHP doesnt, either way keep us posted on this little guy and his progress.

yeloowtang · 02-24-16, 08:03 AM

as jpsteele80 mentioned, an exo terra isn't the best of choices. it can work but modifications are needed.
the ideal cages are PVC with a radiant heat panel. here's a few pictures of some of my ETb cages, the adults are in 24x24x24 except a huge female that is in a 36x24x24.
babies i keep in pvc cages that i made for them 9x12x12.
I do still have a few modified exo terras until i make more pvc cages, but they are all modofied to perform the same..
here's a few pictures of adult cages and of a few baby cages, they are in units of 3..
IMG-20150204-00001.jpg

IMG-20150311-00021.jpg

DSCN2889_zps7b0f74ca.jpg

jpsteele80 · 02-24-16, 10:35 AM

Damn yeloowtang, I might have to add some fake shrubbery to my cage, those look pretty good

CraigC · 03-17-16, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agspecialties

Here is my set up. I have a mister that goes off every 45 minutes and mist in the air distilled water for .4 seconds. It maintains a 70 to 75% humidity. Under the light, the air temp is 83 and away from the light the air temp is 78. On the base of the tank is a under tank heater. Where the heater is, 90 and cool side is 80. Now with that mister going off every 45 minutes, when it mist water in the air, the humidity shoots up to 70 to 75 than in the 45 minutes, the humidity will slowly works its self down to the low 60's. If i shut that mister off, the humidity will drop in 20 minutes to 40%.
I have done some research on RI's and might try to do the Vick vapor rub treatment for a couple of days and see if that helps. You guys are mentioning dry air. Should I set up another light and have it cooler and no humidity during the night? I am really afraid of that maybe.

Guide to Home Treatment for Respiratory Infections (R.I) With Pics - Reptile Forums

If you are still dealing with that neonates URI, I would suggest seeing if your vet will work with you on a treatment that we have used with great success.

You will need a nebulizer and a filebox size rubbermaid with a single horizontal perch. A hole cut in the side to accept the nebulizer cup opening.

For medication you will need 10cc of Amikacin, 10cc of Mucomyst and a container of sterile water. You will also need some syringes and needles to draw the meds and water. There will be 10 treatments, each 3 days apart. Add to the nebulizers bowl 1cc of Amikacin, 1cc of Mucomyst and fill the bowl wilth sterile water. Screw the top of the bowl on and connect to the nebulizer air tube, then place the nebulizer opening into the hole of the treatment container. Place the neonate into the container, secure the top and turn the nebulizer on. The treatment will last until all liquid is gone from the bowl. You will have to clean the treatment container and enclosure after each treatment. I prefer unscented Nolvasan over all other disinfectants. Keep the syringes and needles in a plastic bag in the fridge for reuse as they aren't being used for injections.

Looking at your setup, it is way to big for a neonate ETB! Remember neonates don't sit out in the open to be preyed upon in their natural habitat, they tend to like small, closed in places to hide. Your big enclosure tends to be very stressful for that size and age EBT. You should use a shoe box size container with 3/8" delrin perches. ETBs prefer horizontal perchs. Also, when you offer FT food, heat the heck out of it with hot water and offer with a pair of long hemostats, below the perch, with slight movements. ETBs are ambush hunters with excellent heat seeking sensors!

Also, whether neonate through adult, being approached from above is equal to being preyed upon.