Freshly shed and feeding pics

[radstusky]

I haven't posted here in quite a while, so I thought I'd share some of my latest pics of Leto, my 2010 JCP. He's a little over 4 feet long at this point and I've just switched him from F/T rats to freshly killed. The rat shown here is the first one fed this way. I put the rat inside a cooler with dry ice to humanely kill it. This method is not only the best for the snake, but also looks to be the cheapest since the rats only cost $1.68 each at the local Pet supplies plus.

What do you think, is this the right size of rat for his size?


http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/025.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/025.jpg.html)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/pets012.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/pets012.jpg.html)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/pets022.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/pets022.jpg.html)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/pets024.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/pets024.jpg.html)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/pets030.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/pets030.jpg.html)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/pets031.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/pets031.jpg.html)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/pets033.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/pets033.jpg.html)

[Lankyrob]

I would say that rat is about right, slightly bigger wouldnt hurt :)

[radstusky]

I would say that rat is about right, slightly bigger wouldnt hurt :)

Thanks for the feedback. Do you feed every other week or every week? I've been feeding every week for the most part (except when he's getting ready to shed), but I think I"ll go to every other week not that he's getting a bit older. And especially if I'm feeding larger rats.

[Lankyrob]

Over a year old i feed on a rolling 14/21 day schedule.

[radstusky]

Check out the new feeding pics.

Do you think this one is just the right size, or too big? I think it's on the large size, they just didn't have any smaller at the pet store when I was there. It took him a good half hour or so to eat it.


http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/013.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/013.jpg.html)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/015.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/015.jpg.html)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/020.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/020.jpg.html)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/023.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/023.jpg.html)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/026.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/026.jpg.html)
http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af102/Stuart_Miller/032.jpg (http://s998.photobucket.com/user/Stuart_Miller/media/032.jpg.html)

[smy_749]

I think the second set of pics, the meal looked a bit big, and the first set looked a bit small. Neither of the two seems like it would do any harm if you continued feeding either size (they always look bigger when they aren't frozen thawed, the fur is still fluffy and what not). The real question, is why does your JCP feed like a GTP in the second set :P

[Terranaut]

Even the meal in the second pics is fine. If you go big just bebsure to adjust your schedule accordingly. JCP'S eat while hanging quite often.
My male jcp a week ago
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/20130506_194715_zps78e60a2d.jpg

[smy_749]

looks like hes eating a human head lol Is that a rat? It just looked really large in the second to last pic for some reason. To the OP , is that red tint part of his coloration or from the camera?

[radstusky]

looks like hes eating a human head lol Is that a rat? It just looked really large in the second to last pic for some reason. To the OP , is that red tint part of his coloration or from the camera?

That's a good question. It's not from the camera, I believe it's real. This is the first time I've seen it, I guess because his skin was so stretched. He does feed like a GTP often, he is actually in a GTP cage for one thing, and he often likes to sit on top of his light in there which annoys me because most of the time it doesn't come on and also because it's probably going to fall off at some point.

I think my preferred size for him is something slightly less than the second meal, maybe something in between the first and second, and feeding him about every 3-4 weeks or so.

[Lankyrob]

That second feed looks spot on, and the red tinge may well be a feeding response, my sd retic Nd my jungle both had a blood rush to the head when feeding

[Derek Roddy]

Hi Radstusky,
What are your plans with this Jungle Carpet?

Being that it's a male...it isn't so important but, the meal in your first shots is as large as I'd personally give.

Feeding large meals over time is not a good option for females I've found...esp if you plan on breeding.
It causes all types of issues as adults....esp producing adults.
Poor fertility, Kidney and liver issues, poor muscle tone and over all, weight problems.

One simple question.....who often have you seen a "fat" snake in the wild?

I've seen so many keepers render their snakes useless over time by over feeding. The Black Heads are notorious for it.

I've noticed that all my animals do much better (better sheen, more muscle and more active) since I started feeding smaller meals more often.
Here are just a few reasons I've discovered.

1. The snake never has an empty gut. Having the gut be over full for several days then going to nothing is not good for the bacteria culture in their gut nor is it good for the process of digestion. Having to rebuild that culture in my opinion is what causes internal issues. Feed every 5 days....that's their natural digestion period for most smaller items.

2. On a full gut, the snake has less motivation to move and to be active. Feeding smaller meals more often keeps the snake moving and searching. Something they'd be doing naturally in the wild. It keeps them active and alert.

3. Push through time.....meaning defecation happens much quicker. Less time that the digestive system has to work...and doesn't stress the system as a large item will.

4.They don't have access to these larges meals in their natural habitat. Sure, they may grab a large meal every once and awhile but, over all....their meals are made up of small mammal, birds and other small reptiles. They are very successful hunters and will eat on average in the wild every 5 to 7 days.
Try to reproduce what happens to them naturally as much as you can and you will have a healthy happy snake for the full duration of it's life.

Anyway, take it with a grain of salt but, I've produced at least 800 Carpets over the years and the only adults who ever gave me problem were overfed animals from other keepers that I got on loan.

Stick with the size of the first set of pictures.


The red you see is the blood rushing to the surface of the skin and also a sign that the item is too large. Now, that's OK to give them something "larger" every once and awhile but, do it sparingly.

Cheers,
D

[Lankyrob]

Can you explain the last paragraph? My jungle only showed it whilst eating but my SD showed BEFORE eating, as soon as feed mode triggered in fact.

[radstusky]

Hi Radstusky,
What are your plans with this Jungle Carpet?

Being that it's a male...it isn't so important but, the meal in your first shots is as large as I'd personally give.

Feeding large meals over time is not a good option for females I've found...esp if you plan on breeding.
It causes all types of issues as adults....esp producing adults.
Poor fertility, Kidney and liver issues, poor muscle tone and over all, weight problems.

One simple question.....who often have you seen a "fat" snake in the wild?

I've seen so many keepers render their snakes useless over time by over feeding. The Black Heads are notorious for it.

I've noticed that all my animals do much better (better sheen, more muscle and more active) since I started feeding smaller meals more often.
Here are just a few reasons I've discovered.

1. The snake never has an empty gut. Having the gut be over full for several days then going to nothing is not good for the bacteria culture in their gut nor is it good for the process of digestion. Having to rebuild that culture in my opinion is what causes internal issues. Feed every 5 days....that's their natural digestion period for most smaller items.

2. On a full gut, the snake has less motivation to move and to be active. Feeding smaller meals more often keeps the snake moving and searching. Something they'd be doing naturally in the wild. It keeps them active and alert.

3. Push through time.....meaning defecation happens much quicker. Less time that the digestive system has to work...and doesn't stress the system as a large item will.

4.They don't have access to these larges meals in their natural habitat. Sure, they may grab a large meal every once and awhile but, over all....their meals are made up of small mammal, birds and other small reptiles. They are very successful hunters and will eat on average in the wild every 5 to 7 days.
Try to reproduce what happens to them naturally as much as you can and you will have a healthy happy snake for the full duration of it's life.

Anyway, take it with a grain of salt but, I've produced at least 800 Carpets over the years and the only adults who ever gave me problem were overfed animals from other keepers that I got on loan.

Stick with the size of the first set of pictures.


The red you see is the blood rushing to the surface of the skin and also a sign that the item is too large. Now, that's OK to give them something "larger" every once and awhile but, do it sparingly.

Cheers,
D

Thanks for your response. My plans are to just keep this snake as a pet, not to breed him or anything, unless that changes of course. My goal therefore is to keep him healthy and long lived. I agree with what you're saying about food size. I don't intend to feed him prey as large as the second feeding very often, if at all. Before these two meals, he was eating small frozen thawed rats, and these two rats are the two largest meals he's ever had. I don't think he's been overfed at all, as meals have for the most part been spaced at 2 week intervals.

As I'm sure you know, in the wild snakes are opportunistic feeders and will take whatever food items they come across, which might be large or small, feast or famine. My goal is not necessarily to try to reproduce this, but to feed on a more regular basis. Varying the food size over time is probably a good idea I think, so maybe a large meal, like the second rat, could be a once a year or so occurrence. I'm also sure that no large meals is fine too.

Actually, in between these two meals I went to the same pet store and encountered the same problem, they had no rats of the size I was looking for. That time I bought a much smaller frozen rat as an alternative and passed on the large rats. The next time I went in I thought I'd give the large rat a try, and you saw the result here. All in all, I agree with you and I really don't like feeding such large rats. I think it's a bit more stressful for him to eat. thanks again for everyone's input here!

[Derek Roddy]

One thing you have to consider when talking about Wild vs Farmed food sources is fat content.
A small rat from the wild (which has anywhere from 6% to 15% body fat) and a farm raised rat (which has anywhere from 40% to 70% body fat)

These animals aren't designed to have 3 times the amount of fat given to them in consistent feedings. It's the same thing as that movie "Super Size Me" where the dude at nothing but McDonalds everyday for a month. He added 30 pounds in that time. Over all....that stuff isn't good for us.

Stick with the small meals more often and over all you'll have a snake that lives longer.

D

[Derek Roddy]

Can you explain the last paragraph? My jungle only showed it whilst eating but my SD showed BEFORE eating, as soon as feed mode triggered in fact.

Yes, my Diamonds "blush" in excitement to feed. Some species it's more noticeable but, I'm sure all species do it.

The point I was making was... that animal didn't get bright red in the first feeding shots because the prey item was appropriate size. The second shots....he is much brighter because the large prey item is forcing the blood to the surface of the skin as it is swallowing.

Blushing is normal food response (almost as if they're "prepping" their muscles for constriction by circulating blood)

D

[Amadeus]

Beautiful snake radstusk. =]

[radstusky]

One thing you have to consider when talking about Wild vs Farmed food sources is fat content.
A small rat from the wild (which has anywhere from 6% to 15% body fat) and a farm raised rat (which has anywhere from 40% to 70% body fat)

These animals aren't designed to have 3 times the amount of fat given to them in consistent feedings. It's the same thing as that movie "Super Size Me" where the dude at nothing but McDonalds everyday for a month. He added 30 pounds in that time. Over all....that stuff isn't good for us.

Stick with the small meals more often and over all you'll have a snake that lives longer.

D

That's a good point. A rat with 70% body fat would be one fat rat!


Beautiful snake radstusk. =]

Thanks! He's not bad for $60!

Go Bruins!

[franks]

Yes, go bruins.

Derek thanks for posting that info for us. Do you have any links or articles regarding fat content in farmed rats vs wild rats? I would find that read interesting.

Oh... And go bruins!

[shaunyboy]

I would say that rat is about right, slightly bigger wouldnt hurt :)

^^^^^
this

cheers shaun